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Daine Abbot supports John McDonell's nomination for leader

nightbreed said:
I agree with this.

Also,I dont think anyone on the labour left, whats left of it, can seriously consider the possibility of J McD winning. But if he got on the ballot paper that would be a different issue. It would give the Lab-left the oppurtunity to ressurect itself and most importantly go around the membership of the affiliated unions to secure votes.

As long as something is built from the campaign, especially the link between organised workers and political representation around socialist ideas.

I think its important not to knock it until we have experienced it.

Yep.

I also think that McDonnell would serve well as a conscience to Brown, reminding him that it isn't only mythical "middle England" and the square mile that matter. I like the idea of him whispering to Brown "remember thou art mortal, mighty one".

It'd just be damned nice to see some kind of ideological tension, some kind of drive in the labour party again, instead of this crippling subservience to the neo-liberal ideal.
 
nino_savatte said:
This is what concerns me. I don't see Brown taking anything lying down from members of the Labour left.
Again - indeed!

I don't hold out much hope of the McDonnell campaign doing anything useful in that regard, but who knows, eh?
 
its disgusting Brown is now trying to stitch JM up, snatching JM nominees so that he doesn't even get on the ballot paper, this won't look good for brown, no contest, no democracy, etc, but he doesn't care, he wants to be leader as soon as possible. Further, as I have said before, i think he will do things in his first 100 days, mostly very rightwing things, but with maybe a big 'left policy' popular with the public such as part nationalise the railways, that will take peoples 'breath away'

btw, I agree with VP: JM has steadily been developing a new left coalition, inside and outside parliament,a very diverse one at that, at the rally a Sikh er community leader stood up and endorsed him. Even if he doesn't get on the ballot paper, its not the last we will hear form John, he is playing the long game.I wonder what the trots will do then?
 
I am not sure there is much future for McDonnell within the Labour Party if he doesn't at least get on the ballot paper.

Actually, not sure whether there is any future for him even if he does get on the ballot paper, but who would want to stay within the labour party, anyway?
 
Guineveretoo said:
I am not sure there is much future for McDonnell within the Labour Party if he doesn't at least get on the ballot paper.

Actually, not sure whether there is any future for him even if he does get on the ballot paper, but who would want to stay within the labour party, anyway?

Given that their membership is at a post-war low, not too many people.
 
Guineveretoo said:
I am not sure there is much future for McDonnell within the Labour Party if he doesn't at least get on the ballot paper.

Actually, not sure whether there is any future for him even if he does get on the ballot paper, but who would want to stay within the labour party, anyway?

By the very act of trying to stand against those dominant in New Labour, McDonnell seems to have forced the issue of what to do once he has been frozen out.

It will be interesting to see what he can get together and what the reaction will be afterwards
 
dennisr said:
By the very act of trying to stand against those dominant in New Labour, McDonnell seems to have forced the issue of what to do once he has been frozen out.

It will be interesting to see what he can get together and what the reaction will be afterwards

Maybe but I doubt very much if he would leave the Labour Party. After all where the hell would he go.
If Brown decided to kick him out , which I doubt , that might present another interesting scenario. But lets not speculate.

People here have to get their heads round how difficult it is for any non labour lefty to stand against labour. McDonnell realises that so while people may think there is no point being in the LP there is nowhere else to go.
 
nightbreed said:
Maybe but I doubt very much if he would leave the Labour Party. After all where the hell would he go.
If Brown decided to kick him out , which I doubt , that might present another interesting scenario. But lets not speculate.

People here have to get their heads round how difficult it is for any non labour lefty to stand against labour. McDonnell realises that so while people may think there is no point being in the LP there is nowhere else to go.

But will he get the support of his consituency party and voters at the next General Election? :)
 
Guineveretoo said:
But will he get the support of his consituency party and voters at the next General Election? :)

Probably. By all accounts he's a VERY good constituency MP.

I'm not McDonnell's greatest fan. I remember some of the dogmatic decision-making he indulged in at County Hall back in his "Socialist Organiser" days, but he's good enough at what he does to have won not only respect but affection from his constituency party (according to a "source" of mine ;) ), so de-selection is unlikely to be on the cards unless Central Office gets Stalinist on their arses and conducts a purge.
 
the nowhere else to go arguement was used with nu labour in 97 ,but the voters have found some where else the greens the bnp etc and staying at home. thats what is worrying nu labour.nu labour is now running round like an headless chicken doing more of the same policies but doesn't recognise the landscape has changed
 
shagnasty said:
the nowhere else to go arguement was used with nu labour in 97 ,but the voters have found some where else the greens the bnp etc and staying at home. thats what is worrying nu labour.nu labour is now running round like an headless chicken doing more of the same policies but doesn't recognise the landscape has changed

Ah.'The nowhere else to go' issue.

Obviously I am refering to the question often put to J McD and the labour left as to what they are going to do if the campaign flops badly.
If Labour stalwart, John McDonnell were to giveup/ be kicked out/getpissed off with,the LP, in the event of not winning the leadership, where would he go?

I dont believe he would do a Galloway and join the 'highly successful ' Respect. Indeed he wouldnt bother with the cnwp either , however much they promise to boldly support him and canvass support. He is not a green because he is a socialist.

He hasnt any choice but to stay and continue and build the base that he has got.
 
Fuck that! Am I the only one who thinks Diane Abbot and Michael Portillo would make a great couple? I love watching them on This Week!
 
nightbreed said:
Ah.'The nowhere else to go' issue.

Obviously I am refering to the question often put to J McD and the labour left as to what they are going to do if the campaign flops badly.
If Labour stalwart, John McDonnell were to giveup/ be kicked out/getpissed off with,the LP, in the event of not winning the leadership, where would he go?

I dont believe he would do a Galloway and join the 'highly successful ' Respect. Indeed he wouldnt bother with the cnwp either , however much they promise to boldly support him and canvass support. He is not a green because he is a socialist.

He hasnt any choice but to stay and continue and build the base that he has got.

But what if, when his campaign fails to get him elected as Leader, his constituency party don't select him as their candidate in the next General Election? What do you think he will do then?
 
N_igma said:
Fuck that! Am I the only one who thinks Diane Abbot and Michael Portillo would make a great couple? I love watching them on This Week!

I always thought that they were shagging. Though, Mr Portaloo apparently prefers men.
 
Guineveretoo said:
But what if, when his campaign fails to get him elected as Leader, his constituency party don't select him as their candidate in the next General Election? What do you think he will do then?

See my post of yesterday on this very subject! :p
 
ViolentPanda said:
See my post of yesterday on this very subject! :p

What, this one?

ViolentPanda said:
Probably. By all accounts he's a VERY good constituency MP.

I'm not McDonnell's greatest fan. I remember some of the dogmatic decision-making he indulged in at County Hall back in his "Socialist Organiser" days, but he's good enough at what he does to have won not only respect but affection from his constituency party (according to a "source" of mine ;) ), so de-selection is unlikely to be on the cards unless Central Office gets Stalinist on their arses and conducts a purge.

How does it answer my question as to what he will do if he is deselected? Seems to me that your post is not accepting that he will be deselected, which is not an answer, is it? :)

He has never stood for Labour Leader before - that is going to make a difference to his constituency party, particularly if, as you hint at, the PLP play nasty.
 
As i have said before , JM is playing the long game, he has just published a new booklet/manifesto/call to arms: - "Another World Is Possible" a manifesto for 21st socialism.

The book costs just £2.50 including postage and packaging, i've already bought mine;)

http://www.john4leader.org.uk/

btw, never knew JM was a soggie


But what if, when his campaign fails to get him elected as Leader, his constituency party don't select him as their candidate in the next General Election? What do you think he will do then?
 
oh and this is what JM is saying about the Brown shenanigans:


As we were campaigning I picked up the article in the Guardian reporting that because I was close to securing sufficient nominations to stand for Labour Leader the Brown camp were worried and, to quote, " were intent on stopping a challenge from the party's left wing, most likely from John McDonnell." According to this article from two of the most reliable and respected political journalists in the country, David Hencke and Tania Branigan, Brown and his campaign managers are determined to stop me getting on the ballot paper even to the extent of trying to pressurise some of my supporters to switch allegiances.

Creating this atmosphere of intimidation and this unhealthy climate of bribes and threats is just unseemly and demeaning for those who are involved or who have sanctioned this behaviour. Why can't MPs be left to make up their own minds in an atmosphere free from bullying threats about the implications for their future careers? Why can't they be left to make a judgement on whom to nominate based upon what they believe is best for the party and the country? Many MPs just want to nominate to allow all party members and trade union affiliated members the chance of a vote and say in this leadership election.

Yet again my message to all of those New Labour factions around Blair and Brown is to lighten up and let democracy work. Let's have an open and friendly debate and a democtratic election. An election with a smile on its face. A bit of maturity and dignity wouldn't go amiss.

posted by John at 12:21 AM 0 comments
 
I am not getting an answer to my question, for some reason. Just to be clear - I am only asking because I am interested in people's speculations as to what McDonnell will do, rather than seeking an informed viewpoint.

The BBC website believes that he has always known that he cannot win the vote as leader, but doesn't really address the consequences of him standing.
 
treelover said:
As i have said before , JM is playing the long game, he has just published a new booklet/manifesto/call to arms: - "Another World Is Possible" a manifesto for 21st socialism.

The book costs just £2.50 including postage and packaging, i've already bought mine;)

http://www.john4leader.org.uk/

btw, never knew JM was a soggie

I don't think he is going to sell many copies of this 64 page booklet! According to his website, it's not published yet - have you got a review copy?

What is a "soggie"?
 
Guineveretoo said:
What, this one?



How does it answer my question as to what he will do if he is deselected? Seems to me that your post is not accepting that he will be deselected, which is not an answer, is it? :)

He has never stood for Labour Leader before - that is going to make a difference to his constituency party, particularly if, as you hint at, the PLP play nasty.

MPs usually get the "thumbs up" from their constituency party before doing anything like this, at least that's how it has always worked in the past.
 
Guineveretoo said:
I don't think he is going to sell many copies of this 64 page booklet! According to his website, it's not published yet - have you got a review copy?

What is a "soggie"?

A member of "Socialist Organiser" (as was) a left grouplet that metamorphosed into what is now known as "The Alliance for Workers' Liberty", a "left" (in that they say they're left, I say they're barking) cultlet. :)
 
mk12 said:
the only time i've ever heard the term coconut used in that way was at a swp meeting about south africa. It was made by the speaker, a black south african, criticising Nelson Mandela. It's only today that i've heard someone claim it's racist.
oh there's absolutely no debate mate. Coconut and Bounty are racial insults between blacks, expressing the worst possible elements of [shudders] racial identity. Its generally thrown at the black police officers who are not 'acting black' but 'acting white' but could be thrown at any black person who is seen to do so.

Its not only racist therefore, the entire concept behind it is more malicious than anything like n*gger and that. Its soooo fucked up its not even true :D

legend baldwin, utter legend :D
 
Guineveretoo said:
I don't think he is going to sell many copies of this 64 page booklet! According to his website, it's not published yet - have you got a review copy?

What is a "soggie"?

A "soggie" refers to a supporter of Socialist Organiser, which became the forerunner of the Alliance for Workers Liberty. However it didn't start off quite like that. It began, IIRC, as the paper of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory in 1978. That was a joint effort of the Matgamna group (then called the ICL), the Chartists (a smallish entrist group) and a number of genuine Labour lefts such as Ken Livingstone. The latter disappeared over time but I'd hazard a guess that McDonnell was a supporter of SO in its first phase.

geoff
 
Geoff Collier said:
A "soggie" refers to a supporter of Socialist Organiser, which became the forerunner of the Alliance for Workers Liberty. However it didn't start off quite like that. It began, IIRC, as the paper of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory in 1978. That was a joint effort of the Matgamna group (then called the ICL), the Chartists (a smallish entrist group) and a number of genuine Labour lefts such as Ken Livingstone. The latter disappeared over time but I'd hazard a guess that McDonnell was a supporter of SO in its first phase.

geoff

That's right. McDonnell was never a member of the Matgamna period Socialist Organiser.

The early SO had four distinct parts - the IMG had a small entry fraction of about 50 members who were also involved, so it was a four-way split around Sept 1978 - I-CL/Workers Action, Chartist Minority Tendency, IMG entry fraction and a 'left wing of the bureaucracy' Livingstone, McDonnell (IIRC), Ted Knight also dillied with it and was at the first conference IIRC. A couple of issues of the SCLV paper, Socialist Organiser were produced in the run up to the May 1979 general election. (I was in the very first issue ...! and sold it outside GMCs). The Matgamna group closed Workers Action as a paper to support the SCLV.

By late 1979 however the CMT and Livingstone/McDonnell et al went off to form London Labour Briefing (along with a few not-so-left people like Margaret Hodge, though picking up better people like Tatchell), eventually capturing the GLC in 1981 and several London Boroughs in 1982; Knight went with the WRP and Gerry Healey to form Labour Herald, which also had Livingstone on board, and the IMG decided to become a full entry organisation and launched Socialist Action.

This left the Matgamna group running SCLV and Socialist Organiser on their own. Casting around for friends they chanced on the remnants of WSL who had their own paper Socialist Press and 'front' - the Campaign for Democracy in the Labour Movement. The WSL and I-CL went into an ill-fated merger confusingly taking the WSL's name and Socialist Organiser as a paper, and after the original WSL were chucked out, ostensibly because of disagreements over the Malvinas/Falklands war in 1982, the Matgamna group was left with a revamped Socialist Organiser which they then used to create the Socialist Organiser Alliance, and the name 'WSL' for the secret controlling group.

That went on for a long time with the SO/SOA/WSL enjoying the nickname 'soggies' (short for 'soggy oggy' as Socialist Organiser became known).

And as a Postscript, the expelled WSL members formed the Socialist Group and went on to merge with a faction of the IMG/SL to form the ISG that is still around today - they also briefly merged with the remnants of the CMT but that fell apart over disagreements about the character of the Labour Party. Labour Herald disappeared after the WRP imploded in 1985 (and Ted Knight's disqualification as a councillor), but London Labour Briefing continues today as Labour Left Briefing, though a shadow if its former influence.
 
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