Curfew For Men

[8ball]

This night was still going strong before lockdown:
View attachment 258580

Might also be good if there was something more codified, like a general standard venues in general could agree to and had to show they were sticking (kind of a ‘kite mark’ type of thing).

Or a condition of licensing. I think you could read this much into the law as it stands.

 

[cyril_smear]

This night was still going strong before lockdown:
View attachment 258580

Sounds like a right laugh.

 

[Clair De Lune]

We have lifeguards at swimming pools and security in doors and inside gigs. It would be nice if they were taught to look out for handsy guys ruining women's nights too tbh. Clubs should be a safe place, for fun and dancing and drinking and chats in the smoking area and yes flirting too. But if it were my club I'd have a policy of making it known that lechy, inappropriate behaviour by anyone wouldn't be tolerated because it ruins the atmosphere and fun. I think that would involve chucking out guys who were steaming too cos we've all seen the guys who are so drunk they stand there swaying like a zombie in search for brains.

 

[purenarcotic]

Sounds like a right laugh.

What about that statement bothers you? Do you think it’s okay for people to be made to feel uncomfortable by others on their night out?

 

[8ball]

Sounds like a right laugh.

Literally all that says is that they don’t tolerate discrimination or harassment.

 

[cyril_smear]

What about that statement bothers you? Do you think it’s okay for people to be made to feel uncomfortable by others on their night out?

All of it, frankly.

When did people become so pathetic? Can I report somebody to the bouncer for swearing?

 

[Orang Utan]

Might also be good if there was something more codified, like a general standard venues in general could agree to and had to show they were sticking (kind of a ‘kite mark’ type of thing).

that's what A Good Night Out is for:

Good Night Out Campaign

www.goodnightoutcampaign.org

It leads to established popular clubs such as Village Underground to operate policies such as this:

About – Village Underground

About Village Underground is a renovated turn-of-the-century warehouse in the heart of Shoreditch, East London. Home to cutting-edge culture, clubbing and

www.villageunderground.co.uk

• • What do I do if I am the victim of sexual assault, harassment or discrimination in the venue?
    VU is a club for people to enjoy music without fear of harassment or discrimination. We welcome diversity in our audience and work to create a safe space for everyone present; in return we ask that you respect these values and each other. If someone is making you feel uncomfortable in any way, please let one of the members of staff know and we will try and resolve the issue as soon as possible. We also encourage our crowd to look out for one another and to report unacceptable behaviour if it occurs.
    
    We classify the below behaviours as unacceptable and any reports of these will result in you being ejected from Village Underground:
    
    Unwanted physical contact (including groping and grabbing)
    
    Catcalling
    
    Leering
    
    Stalking
    
    Sexual assault and rape
    
    Upskirting
    
    Verbal or physical intimidation (including sexism, racism, homophobia and transphobia)
    
    
    
    If you experience any of the above, or see it happening, please report it to the nearest member of staff. We will have staff who will be able to assist you. You can also report by calling 020 7422 7505 or emailing info@villageunderground.co.uk.
    
    We are accredited by the Good Night Out campaign which means that:
    If something or someone makes you feel uncomfortable no matter how minor it seems, you can
    speak to any member of staff and they will work with you so it doesn’t have to ruin your
    experience.
    Our team has been specially trained to listen and support you.

 

[cyril_smear]

Literally all that says is that they don’t tolerate discrimination or harassment.

Same as any club then really

 

[Orang Utan]

Sounds like a right laugh.

I haven't been but they had a good rep for putting on great techno/electro parties. An all women collective too.

 

[8ball]

Same as any club then really

What exactly was your problem again?

 

[stethoscope]

I must admit, the only nights I've been to in recent years have been old skool ones so we've all been of a certain vintage.

I loved the early-mid 90s rave scene, where everyone was rushing so hard that this barely seemed to factor, yet mid-late 90s student clubbing in more high street bars/clubs which we'll probably remember being dubbed 'meat markets', just ugh.

Gay clubs in the 00s were in some ways a 'safer space', although I remember the vibe of those shifting a bit - firstly the hen parties arrived, which could be annoying more than anything but that then attracted a certain crowd of straight men into the clubs too on the pull of the straight women groups going. Weirdly, I once got accosted barely coming out of the ladies in a gay club on Canal Street, who felt me up and tried to snog me and then wandered off! I always presumed he was straight, praps he was hoping for something between my legs!

I did do a women's tent at a club classics night some years ago, and that did have a certain liberating feeling to it.

Although not sure if any of this is an answer to the behaviour of men and how that needs to change, though.

 

[Clair De Lune]

that's what A Good Night Out is for:

Good Night Out Campaign

www.goodnightoutcampaign.org

It leads to established popular clubs such as Village Underground to operate policies such as this:

About – Village Underground

About Village Underground is a renovated turn-of-the-century warehouse in the heart of Shoreditch, East London. Home to cutting-edge culture, clubbing and

www.villageunderground.co.uk

This is encouraging

 

[Orang Utan]

Same as any club then really

Not at all

 

[cyril_smear]

What exactly was your problem again?

Everything!

 

[Orang Utan]

Although not sure if any of this is any answer to the behaviour of men and how that needs to change, though.

Quite, but some obtuse loudmouths have got the bit between their teeth on this thread as is depressingly usual

 

[Clair De Lune]

This thread has been handy for drawing out the cretins aye.

 

[purenarcotic]

All of it, frankly.

When did people become so pathetic? Can I report somebody to the bouncer for swearing?

So it’s pathetic for me to not want to be groped on a night out? Or if it happens, it’s pathetic for me to expect the club to do something about it? Because what generally happens when we do tell the clubs is nothing. We get told to lighten up, to leave it, he’s drunk so what’s the issue. I couldn’t give a shit about swearing, nor do most people. I just don’t want to be touched up without my consent. Why is this a big ask? Do you touch women without their permission or something? Is that an inherent part of a night out for you?

 

[Orang Utan]

it's a real shame that the focus of discussion on this thread has narrowed so much to men complaining about clubs trying ensure they are safe for everyone

 

[8ball]

it's a real shame that the focus of discussion on this thread has narrowed so much to men complaining about clubs trying ensure they are safe for everyone

Maybe worth leaving that subject considering almost everyone seems to agree on what isn’t acceptable behaviour and that certain good things are are being / have been done need to be done more.

 

[SheilaNaGig]

So it’s pathetic for me to not want to be groped on a night out? Or if it happens, it’s pathetic for me to expect the club to do something about it? Because what generally happens when we do tell the clubs is nothing. We get told to lighten up, to leave it, he’s drunk so what’s the issue. I couldn’t give a shit about swearing, nor do most people. I just don’t want to be touched up without my consent. Why is this a big ask? Do you touch women without their permission or something? Is that an inherent part of a night out for you?

Or have some bloke leering at me, or leaning in on a conversation I’m having with someone else, or staring at me insistently, or repeating that I’m hot or sexy or beautiful without actually developing any conversation. The same stuff I don’t want in any other arena ffs!

 

[Clair De Lune]

it's a real shame that the focus of discussion on this thread has narrowed so much to men complaining about clubs trying ensure they are safe for everyone

Yep instead of how likely it is that one of your mates has harassed, sexually assaulted or raped a woman. Cos me and all my mates have been raped and those guys had mates too believe me.

 

[stethoscope]

Sounds like a right laugh.

Is seriously just setting out that everyone has the right to have a safe and good night, without people being cunts on various grounds, a bad thing?

 

[Edie]

it's a real shame that the focus of discussion on this thread has narrowed so much to men complaining about clubs trying ensure they are safe for everyone

Agreed. Let’s open it out. If men’s attitudes to women have noticeably worsened over the last decade wrt public place harassment, what is it that we are not doing or are doing that’s causing that?

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Yep instead of how likely it is that one of your mates has harassed, sexually assaulted or raped a woman. Cos me and all my mates have been raped and those guys had mates too believe me.

I’m really sorry this happened to you Clair De Lune


This thing about mates is important.

Blokes say “no one i know does this”. So who do they think it is that’s leering and flashing and groping and raping?

 

[Orang Utan]

Agreed. Let’s open it out. If men’s attitudes to women have noticeably worsened over the last decade wrt public place harassment, what is it that we are not doing or are doing that’s causing that?

I don't think they've necessarily worsened or got better, it's just that it's always been the same

 

[ddraig]

Is seriously just setting out that everyone has the right to have a safe and good night, without people being cunts on various grounds, a bad thing?

Yes for people like Cyril as they have to think about things and have consideration for others, when they go to a club it's to enjoy themselves and everyone and everything is fair game, cos it's a club and booze and stuff, and that's why people go to clubs of course

 

[SheilaNaGig]

Agreed. Let’s open it out. If men’s attitudes to women have noticeably worsened over the last decade wrt public place harassment, what is it that we are not doing or are doing that’s causing that?

Hang on...

Are you saying “what is it that women are/are not doing to cause the bad behaviour?”

Or are you saying “we” meaning society?

 

[Clair De Lune]

I’m really sorry this happened to you Clair De Lune


This thing about mates is important.

Blokes say “no one i know does this”. So who do they think it is that’s leering and flashing and groping and raping?

Exactly...so few men on this thread have admitted to having mates with dodgy attitudes. And yet these men are everywhere...they gotta be someone's mate.

 

[Athos]

Date rape.



He won’t let it go.... you end up saying yes because you worry that his insistence and persistence will escalate.

I'd like a club night where there were no blokes. I don't think the idea of a safe mixed space works really (unless all the men are gay).

In answer to your question about why men do it Athos - women will sometimes say yes because they're too scared to say no. Some men can get really aggressive when you say no, even in public.

Others just are looking to fuel their knowledge that all women are bitches so that they can take righteous pleasure in shouting at you that they never fancied you anyway because you're a fat slaaaaaaaag and a lezzer .

Grim.

 

[stethoscope]

Exactly...so few men on this thread have admitted to having mates with dodgy attitudes. And yet these men are everywhere...they gotta be someone's mate.

They're seriously turning a blind eye, or not being entirely honest about their own conduct I suspect.