Each to their own. The idea of a safe space club sounds so weirdly policed it’s a total offput for me. Where’s the edge.
Curfew For Men
- Thread starter Orang Utan
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Ax^
Silly Rabbit
Go back to the 50s where you have men on one side and women on the other..
you have the cross the floor to talk to the other side and walk back across when ya get told to get to fuck
That is the crucial difference imo. I quite like a flirt, I quite like being moved to one side by my hips, seeing a guy looking at me, little cheeky wink, shared smile, look down, passing compliment, dancing close. Honestly? I’ve never had a problem with it in that context and I’ve done a fair amount of clubbing.
The crucial difference is the good man, when getting a knock back or signal for no, doesn’t get his ego hurt and get aggressive. The jerks do. But this board brush talk of ‘men must not flirt of the dance floor’ stuff leaves me a bit
What’s the fucking point then 
Women on this thread have said they won't go to straight clubs anymore because they always get sleazed on by men when they do. I was posting really in response to that conversation. I think it really is an either or tbh
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think it’s easy to talk past each other here, gay clubs, for example, are “safe spaces” on
several counts, and involve people going with the express and open intention of getting laid a lot of the time.
Must say response is very matter of fact given how easily you could read that post as saying you enjoy being harassed by drunk sleazy bores.
I’m clearly talking about ‘safe space’ from flirting as per killer b , not gay clubsI think it’s easy to talk past each other here, gay clubs, for example, are “safe spaces” on
several counts, and involve people going with the express and open intention of getting laid a lot of the time.
Must say response is very matter of fact given how easily you could read that post as saying you enjoy being harassed by drunk sleazy bores.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I’m clearly talking about ‘safe space’ from flirting as per killer b , not gay clubs
Yeah, I know. You were also talking about safety vs. an ‘edge’. I don’t think being free from unwanted hassle means the only option is these weird behavioural controls being talked about on this thread. Some of it sounds borderline pervy.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Most clubs I go to are to dance not flirt. And of course you can have a flirt if you want in a club that has a policy to keep people safe.I’m clearly talking about ‘safe space’ from flirting as per killer b , not gay clubs
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I think after going round the same circle once or twice more we might land on the idea that (short of the vanquishing of capitalism and the coming together of all humanity in a great new form of previously unimagined harmony) that a mixture of codes of conduct re: security and a change of culture in venues might get us somewhat closer to where we’d like to be.
I’ve been to clubs where men making persistent unwanted advances have been shown the door. It’s to do with what is viewed as acceptable and the kind of reputation clubs want to have. I’d be gutted if I’d set up a place where I wanted people to have a good time and found loads of the women were keeping a hand on top of their drinks glasses at all times (and getting friends to hold them similarly when going to the loo) because there was a serious risk of being drugged by a sexual predator.
Weird behavioural controls is the kinda flavour of the whole thread tbh.
Orang Utan how do you and killer b imagine this would work in reality? Would it be enough to advertise it as a ‘safe space’ but what would that mean? If more enforcement would be necessary, how would that be implemented? Christ this is a super bad idea isn’t it?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
it does work in realityWeird behavioural controls is the kinda flavour of the whole thread tbh.
Orang Utan how do you and killer b imagine this would work in reality? Would it be enough to advertise it as a ‘safe space’ but what would that mean? If more enforcement would be necessary, how would that be implemented? Christ this is a super bad idea isn’t it?
just a more proactive role from security and a dialogue between them and the promoters. it's a piece of piss. it can even be a self-policed event.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
Date rape.
He won’t let it go.... you end up saying yes because you worry that his insistence and persistence will escalate.
I think it's maybe a mistake to talk about safe spaces 'cause as mentioned it's got connotations of purse-lipped puritan joy-killers in empty-dancefloored student unions, but that's what most of the kind of existing initiatives I was wondering about are called so that's how it ended up being what we're talking about.
The reason these initiatives exist is because many women feel unsafe in clubs and bars, vis many posts on this thread and other similar threads, conversations had with friends ad infinitum, and the evidence of my own eyes. I'd like to see a change in the culture that makes women feel unsafe in clubs and bars - a change that isn't just reactive. I'm not sure exactly what the best way to do this is, but expected standards of behaviour are hardly an alien concept to most people, even in nightclubs.
The reason these initiatives exist is because many women feel unsafe in clubs and bars, vis many posts on this thread and other similar threads, conversations had with friends ad infinitum, and the evidence of my own eyes. I'd like to see a change in the culture that makes women feel unsafe in clubs and bars - a change that isn't just reactive. I'm not sure exactly what the best way to do this is, but expected standards of behaviour are hardly an alien concept to most people, even in nightclubs.
It actually reminds me more of safe spaces at Universities where dissenting voices from the liberal left are banned. It smells of policing in the same way. I am massively distrustful (and a little scornful) of it.
Its a loaded term anyway!
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I don't understand why - what's wrong with trying to make a night out enjoyable for everyone? It's just about mutual respect and making it easier to deal with unacceptable behaviour
It is. I guess I’d just want to encourage people to think about the unintended results of something like this. I’m a bit surprised our clubbing experiences have been so different tbh.
I mean sure if you go to ‘Majestic’ where girls are out in groups, no coats, tiny dresses, bottle in a cooler in the middle of the table, and guys wear shirts and all the under 25s are in big groups, there will be some booze-intensified (and probably poorly judged at times) flirting going on. My eldest loves this scene currently, the one where you and your mates get a group photo on the way in and your all wearing white shirts and have the same hair style
But the more serious dj/club/dance clubs Ive quite honestly never been over-hassled in. Has it got worse since I stopped clubbing a decade ago do you think?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I don’t really feel unsafe in clubs, not the way I sometimes feel unsafe in the street. Which is not to say I’ve never been in danger in clubs (had to be rescued a time or two by burly blokes when I was coraled into a dark corner, the back stairs).
I feel harassed and predated in clubs. And I’m bored of it.
Like Edie, I like the flirting and the mating rituals, checking each other out, all that. What I don’t like is when the men insinuate themselves into my company, intrude on my space, push my boundaries, don’t respond to my subtle “no thanks, not for me ta” signals and bulldozer onwards. Then I have to increase my signals to overt gestures, words of rejection etc.
I get that everyone reads things differently. But if a bloke starts off with the subtle signals, that suggests to me he can communicate in and pick up on the subtle signals. But now I’m signalling No he can’t pick up what I’m saying? Nah, that’s bullshit. He’s ignoring what I’m saying and pushing his agenda.
I feel harassed and predated in clubs. And I’m bored of it.
Like Edie, I like the flirting and the mating rituals, checking each other out, all that. What I don’t like is when the men insinuate themselves into my company, intrude on my space, push my boundaries, don’t respond to my subtle “no thanks, not for me ta” signals and bulldozer onwards. Then I have to increase my signals to overt gestures, words of rejection etc.
I get that everyone reads things differently. But if a bloke starts off with the subtle signals, that suggests to me he can communicate in and pick up on the subtle signals. But now I’m signalling No he can’t pick up what I’m saying? Nah, that’s bullshit. He’s ignoring what I’m saying and pushing his agenda.
Clair De Lune
Apocalypse cocktails
I've danced with guys and really enjoyed myself. What I don't like is when I'm dancing with my friends and a guy I've had no interaction with starts grinding up against my arse and putting his hands on me. When I was younger I'd cringe and just try to move away, nowadays I'd turn and say 'can you get your fucking hands off me please?' but neither make for a good night TBF.That is the crucial difference imo. I quite like a flirt, I quite like being moved to one side by my hips, seeing a guy looking at me, little cheeky wink, shared smile, look down, passing compliment, dancing close. Honestly? I’ve never had a problem with it in that context and I’ve done a fair amount of clubbing.
The crucial difference is the good man, when getting a knock back or signal for no, doesn’t get his ego hurt and get aggressive. The jerks do. But this board brush talk of ‘men must not flirt of the dance floor’ stuff leaves me a bit
yeah I think so. It never used to be (much) of a problem in my raving days - I don't go out clubbing much anymore either, but the last few times I have been there's been a noticeable uptick of sleazy dudes on the dancefloor. Maybe I've been unlucky.
trashpony
Hag
I'd like a club night where there were no blokes. I don't think the idea of a safe mixed space works really (unless all the men are gay).
In answer to your question about why men do it Athos - women will sometimes say yes because they're too scared to say no. Some men can get really aggressive when you say no, even in public.
Others just are looking to fuel their knowledge that all women are bitches so that they can take righteous pleasure in shouting at you that they never fancied you anyway because you're a fat slaaaaaaaag and a lezzer .
In answer to your question about why men do it Athos - women will sometimes say yes because they're too scared to say no. Some men can get really aggressive when you say no, even in public.
Others just are looking to fuel their knowledge that all women are bitches so that they can take righteous pleasure in shouting at you that they never fancied you anyway because you're a fat slaaaaaaaag and a lezzer .
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
It is. I guess I’d just want to encourage people to think about the unintended results of something like this. I’m a bit surprised our clubbing experiences have been so different tbh.
I mean sure if you go to ‘Majestic’ where girls are out in groups, no coats, tiny dresses, bottle in a cooler in the middle of the table, and guys wear shirts and all the under 25s are in big groups, there will be some booze-intensified (and probably poorly judged at times) flirting going on. My eldest loves this scene currently, the one where you and your mates get a group photo on the way in and your all wearing white shirts and have the same hair style
But the more serious dj/club/dance clubs Ive quite honestly never been over-hassled in. Has it got worse since I stopped clubbing a decade ago do you think?
Being called a fucking bitch for saying I’m not interested is not ‘poorly judged flirting’ - it’s behaviour of a shit. That is the stuff I want stopped. I don’t care about fucking flirting. I want to go on a night out with my mates and have a nice time and if someone approaches me, I want my no instantly respected and adhered to. I really don’t think that’s much to ask.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
London clubs (at least when I was living there five years ago) would often have 'safe space'/anti-harrassment policies. There was even a campaign called A Good Night Out which accredited clubs for having progressive policies.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
I don’t think it’s the time lapse so much as that you’re talking about very different clubs.
Majestic? You’re only 10 years out of touch...It is. I guess I’d just want to encourage people to think about the unintended results of something like this. I’m a bit surprised our clubbing experiences have been so different tbh.
I mean sure if you go to ‘Majestic’ where girls are out in groups, no coats, tiny dresses, bottle in a cooler in the middle of the table, and guys wear shirts and all the under 25s are in big groups, there will be some booze-intensified (and probably poorly judged at times) flirting going on. My eldest loves this scene currently, the one where you and your mates get a group photo on the way in and your all wearing white shirts and have the same hair style
But the more serious dj/club/dance clubs Ive quite honestly never been over-hassled in. Has it got worse since I stopped clubbing a decade ago do you think?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
This night was still going strong before lockdown:
she literally said that in the post you're replying to.
I’ve literally just said I’ve not been clubbing for ten years
That’s embarrassing for me
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