Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
No, I admit, we rarely do.
Curfew For Men
- Thread starter Orang Utan
- Start date
No, I admit, we rarely do.
Zapp Brannigan
Built like a steakhouse, handles like a bistro
I hang out with other decent men, I wouldn't want to associate with those I consider dickheads. However, even these men (me included) are capable of dickhead behaviour from time to time. I am one to call it out, as are they, but what I do realise is that we all have been setting the bar too high for what is considered dickhead behaviour. That stops now.
Treacle Toes
Time
It doesn’t generally. But I am actually trying to be sensitive because I know a lot of women here are genuinely upset.Oh come off it Edie You want in and to express them so crack on. DId someone tag you and ask you to speak?Of course not, that would be odd...please don't do the mystery, for the record thing. Having different views doesn't stop you generally does it?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Not sure how we’re supposed to hang out with people we don’t like. Also, maybe it’s just the friendship groups I have, but I’ve never been in any all male groups
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
I wasn’t expecting her to be here.
Okay, “wondering” wasn’t the right word.
Or, “wondering where she was” was inaccurate.
I wondered what she might say about this.
Treacle Toes
Time
I get that. My post was more that if you are being sensitive posting what you did and building intrigue seems odd to me. That's all.
On the men not hanging out with dickheads thing... I totally get that. We're all much more discerning about our friendship groups as we get older aren't we? I certainly have distanced myself from other females whose attitudes and behaviour I find problematic....and I can't imagine any of the regular urban men admitting to being part of the worse of toxic male culture for the same reason.
bimble
floofy
I would absolutely love this. I have close women friends who would maybe not want to come to that night but it would be heaven for people like me who just really want to dance and have evolved all sorts of weird ideas of how to do that, alone, whilst signalling loud & clear somehow to people like ‘Oli’ there that it’s not “provocative” it’s just dancing.
This means long sleeved tops whilst sweating, not doing certain sort of movements, tying a top round yr waist so nobody thinks you’re trying to show off yr bum, it all sounds insane when I write it out like that. I’m not saying these behaviours are in any way reasonable but they’re just things I’ve done habitually to try to avoid being ‘misunderstood’ when out dancing alone, I love dancing and I really really don’t want someone screaming in my ear What is your name, or trying to sexy dance with me, and that is hard to achieve tbh.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
See, I think that’s a problem. This topic has been pressing for some time now, certainly since the #metoo thing.
So why is it that at no point has it become a topic for discussion in your friendship group? You’ve been talking about it here, I expect you and your friends have had some discussion about these matters with the women in your life. But not with each other.
Wouldn’t it have been fairly easy to say to one another “wow this #metoo thing, my wife says that... it’s made me think... I wonder if...” and so forth.
And yet, apparently, men generally just don’t talk about it with each other.
Treacle Toes
Time
Okay. Got it.
I wasn’t expecting her to be here.
Okay, “wondering” wasn’t the right word.
Or, “wondering where she was” was inaccurate.
I wondered what she might say about this.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
It’s a good point.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
And do you and your men friends generally talk about gender politics, women’s rights, misogyny, sexism etc? Has that ever been part of your discourse?
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
When dickhead men approach me, I am obliged to hang out with them for as long as it takes to get away without insulting him.
What about both men and women not approaching each other unless both agree to invitation? I think that would be fair
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
I guess there are times when you are part of a wider group. It happens to me a few times when I'm out for drinks after work and i'm with people who are part of the wider circle who may make a comment that I find to be a bad take. Doesn't happen very often though as it's still all teachers and trend very lefty socially conscious.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Fairly rare to be in an all male group for me too if there’s more than two or three people. Been that way for a long time.
bimble
floofy
It’s a deal Oli.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Yes. I did say earlier that men should call out other men being dickheads when they notice creepy behaviour in public
Excellent, I'm all for that. Now, how exactly would this work? How do you know if someone agrees to the invitation? What happens if one person agrees and the other doesn't?
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I have always, and my heterosexual friends too, had the best nights in gay clubs. I simply won’t go out to the straight clubs now, it’s like a bear pit and I’m sick of it and I’ll lose my shit and punch someone soon. Very, very rarely have an issue in gay clubs though. Great nights.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
And constantly turning to keep my back to them so they can’t say I was looking at them. Keeping my eyes closed, changing places on the dance floor, feigning really important conversations with someone else when they keep trying to catch my eye.
Athos
Well-Known Member
If you want to set up such an event, knock yourself out. But that's not what I'm proposing.
bimble
floofy
I’ve got feelings about that as a solution, it’s a space that’s meant to be for gay people. Anyway my thing is Jamaican music so not a solution for me!
Treacle Toes
Time
....and what will you do when you see a man not keeping to that agreement Oli?
Shippou-Sensei
4:1:2.5
The only all male group i'm currently in is the D&D group i'm in. There is also a woman in that group but she doesn't play in the campaign I play in.
My D&D group is lovely though and does talk about some of the really bad behaviour you can see in the subculture (also wider world but it normally starts related to D&D or geek culture in general)
My D&D group is lovely though and does talk about some of the really bad behaviour you can see in the subculture (also wider world but it normally starts related to D&D or geek culture in general)
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
It is, but most of my mates are straight women so what am I gonna do lol.
the ultimate solution is men behaving themselves, was more a point of how much nicer it is when you’re in a space where the men are definitely not interested.
Cid
Proper break this time
I'm not sure about this... At least it's not my experience of things. My social circle at the moment - and especially this year - is largely male (friends with people at my workshop, light industry mostly men). We do actually talk about this stuff. There are some aspects of Sarah Everard's case and the discussion on this and the other thread we could build on somewhat, of course there are. But it isn't an unknown, nor is it taboo.
The problem is that the men we're talking about are manipulative; they gaslight, they lie, they shift their friendship groups to find people who will either support them, or who they can exercise power over. They build up networks of support through deceit; they use the people they abuse to support their wider presentation, they have families who show their support, they use their children as tools to present an image that hides their nature.
I wish this was as simple as more talking, and continuing to improve personal behaviour, challenging bad behaviour etc. Just doesn't reflect my experience.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
One of the most depressing things I saw in terms of this kind of thing was a few years back when a bunch of us went to place where all the young women (it was generally a younger age group) were covering their drinks with their hand because of the risk of it getting spiked. Just like it was just what you do on your night out.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Yeah, agree with you there. There have always been some straight people in gay clubs but there’s a tipping point where it is no longer the space it was meant to be.
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