Cost of Living Crisis: Enough is Enough Campaign

[LDC]

Couldn't agree more on the last sentence. If they swarm in and seek to divert local groups into their pet campaigns or subject them to lengthy 'interventions' and sectarian point scoring then they'll drive people away in droves. Listening to Lynch's comments he also appears to share the concern.

What's EiE position on Palestine? It must be clarified immediately in a long winded statement comrade.

 

[campanula]

I am on a freaking prepay metre but it didn't stop me from tramping the streets delivering leaflets. In fact, it made it even more necessary to take some sort of action rather than sitting at home whining. I am shy and anxious but I swear, I would cheerfully (wo)man a table at my local community centre offering suggestions and advice because a lot of people I know agree with DP on principle but are really quite worried about utilising a decent strategy (such as the timing of DDs, the legal ramifications, the actual processes involved in a run-up to a potential closure of service. If more people understood that even a 2 week lag in paying had value, I think it would be worthwhile. The idea is fundamentally sound but detail and nuance is everything.
Ultimately, I think rallies also have a purpose inasmuch as they are points of connection. If we are left to rely on a purely online campaign without the actual recognition and comradely support IRL, we have nothing. We urgently need to be able to hold surgeries and advice stops which involve that personal sense of community and solidarity. I will certainly enquire at my local labour hall about half-day open house meeting points.

 

[LDC]

I am on a freaking prepay metre but it didn't stop me from tramping the streets delivering leaflets. In fact, it made it even more necessary to take some sort of action rather than sitting at home whining. I am shy and anxious but I swear, I would cheerfully (wo)man a table at my local community centre offering suggestions and advice because a lot of people I know agree with DP on principle but are really quite worried about utilising a decent strategy (such as the timing of DDs, the legal ramifications, the actual processes involved in a run-up to a potential closure of service. If more people understood that even a 2 week lag in paying had value, I think it would be worthwhile. The idea is fundamentally sound but detail and nuance is everything.

Yeah, it's early days. I know this stuff is getting talked about loads and I think will become clearer soon.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

We urgently need to be able to hold surgeries and advice stops

I think this is a brilliant idea. We used to do these during the anti poll tax campaign and they were really important.

 

[not a trot]

Wife just returned from a dentist appointment in Farnham. On way back she popped into sainsburys, got a few bits and also made a donation of some cereal and a few tins to the foodbank collection point. A woman actually walked up to her and told her she was wrong to do this, as it just encourages 'these' people to expect more. She's quite upset that such cunts are so blatant.

 

[skyscraper101]

Wife just returned from a dentist appointment in Farnham. On way back she popped into sainsburys, got a few bits and also made a donation of some cereal and a few tins to the foodbank collection point. A woman actually walked up to her and told her she was wrong to do this, as it just encourages 'these' people to expect more. She's quite upset that such cunts are so blatant.

Blimey, it’s not enough to just do nothing to help others, she has to actually confront someone being kind enough to donate. She’d have got a right piece of my mind if she dared try that on with me.

 

[Shechemite]

Why don’t you contact them to explain this ? I’m sure they would want to include rather than exclude

The conversation has moved on, but the RMT have done good work standing up for disabled people, and DPOs have likewise been supportive for RMT action. The downside of this is the cross-fertilising lunacy between the free Julian assange types of the RMT and their (depressingly numerous) counterparts within certain DPOs. On the plus side I’m pretty confident that the EIE campaign will end up including disabled/unemployed people.

With luck might even include those (or at least their families) who are (for want of a better word) profoundly disabled - I know some carers who are keen on this.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

UCU have now formally affiliated to EiE:



As have ASLEF



And as have a Glasgow group fighting energy price rises:

 

[Karl Masks]

Wife just returned from a dentist appointment in Farnham. On way back she popped into sainsburys, got a few bits and also made a donation of some cereal and a few tins to the foodbank collection point. A woman actually walked up to her and told her she was wrong to do this, as it just encourages 'these' people to expect more. She's quite upset that such cunts are so blatant.

expect more than no food? How dare they!

the voice of insecurity and fear.

 

[Karl Masks]

The fact that over 4 million households are on pre-paid meters is a significant issue is my view., although it doesn't automatically render the 'Don't Pay' campaign 'middle class'.

The position of the other unions on EiE is hard to work out at present. The CWU GS and Lynch/Dempsey seem to be the trade unions leaders driving it, but only the former union is on their website as a supporter. Lynch has mentioned Sharon Graham and Gary Smith as sharing the same analysis as them but in our Branch we've heard nothing yet from Unite about it.

Couldn't agree more on the last sentence. If they swarm in and seek to divert local groups into their pet campaigns or subject them to lengthy 'interventions' and sectarian point scoring then they'll drive people away in droves. Listening to Lynch's comments he also appears to share the concern.

The campaign FAQ makes it clear they don't expect people on prepay to participate as fully. I don't see anything from them that indicates they don't care about such people, as that would be an obvious own goal.

I am curious as to those organising the campaign, but for equally obvious reasons there is no expectation for them to reveal themselves. I assume they are just members of the general public.

What happened to the call, as presented in a tik tok clip that was posted way back, saying that the campaign ought to change it's focus from not paying to making complaints?

 

[LDC]

What happened to the call, as presented in a tik tok clip that was posted way back, saying that the campaign ought to change it's focus from not paying to making complaints?

AFAIK someone looked into the detail of that and it's not a realistic option for people to take. The short version is price is not a valid ground for a complaint, and all the stuff about it costing the companies money is not true. Not to mention that even if it was it's against the collective struggle element of the Don't Pay thing.

 

[Karl Masks]

AFAIK someone looked into the detail of that and it's not a realistic option for people to take. The short version is price is not a valid ground for a complaint, and all the stuff about it costing the companies money is not true. Not to mention that even if it was it's against the collective struggle element of the Don't Pay thing.

Ok thanks. That guy claimed to know that stuff because it was once his job, guess not.

There are surely issues around credit rating, but i guess it won't matter if you can't pay anyway

 

[Wilf]

I don't want to say anything negative about EIE, I'll be getting involved in it and it's one of the few positive things to happen of late. The idea of linking union struggles to cost of of living and to communities is just what we need and precisely what hasn't been happening. So having said all that, in the context of being pleased and involved, my spidey senses are a bit twitchy. The local and community bit of it seems a bit murky at the moment and we've got union leaders and politicians up front for the first rally. We'll have to see, we need to get involved, but I'd just like to get a sense that those setting it up are happy to let it develop in whatever direction those on the ground want it to go. I say that equally keeping in mind the need to avoid vanguardists playing their pathetic games.

Anyway... great stuff, but let's keep it that way.

 

[emanymton]

AFAIK someone looked into the detail of that and it's not a realistic option for people to take. The short version is price is not a valid ground for a complaint, and all the stuff about it costing the companies money is not true. Not to mention that even if it was it's against the collective struggle element of the Don't Pay thing.

From what I remember of that video he didn't say to complain about price.

I did think this was a weakness and not something he explained as you would need to have something to make a legitimate complaint about and then just refuse to close the complaint. I think that was his suggestion. It's finding something to complain about that is vaguely legitimate that is the issue.

 

[LDC]

I don't want to say anything negative about EIE, I'll be getting involved in it and it's one of the few positive things to happen of late. The idea of linking union struggles to cost of of living and to communities is just what we need and precisely what hasn't been happening. So having said all that, in the context of being pleased and involved, my spidey senses are a bit twitchy. The local and community bit of it seems a bit murky at the moment and we've got union leaders and politicians up front for the first rally. We'll have to see, we need to get involved, but I'd just like to get a sense that those setting it up are happy to let it develop in whatever direction those on the ground want it to go. I say that equally keeping in mind the need to avoid vanguardists playing their pathetic games.

Anyway... great stuff, but let's keep it that way.

I chatted to someone last night who's involved via one of the named organisations 'sponsoring it'. They said that union reps from the RMT and CWU locally are setting the EiE groups up and will be the steering committees for them. They're starting with rallies in some big cities and then the next round is rallies in smaller cities/towns. I feel like it's a great idea, but one that the unions are very much going to struggle to relinquish control and their veto over what happens in the local groups and nationally.

 

[Wilf]

I chatted to someone last night who's involved via one of the named organisations 'sponsoring it'. They said that union reps from the RMT and CWU locally are setting the EiE groups up and will be the steering committees for them. They're starting with rallies in some big cities and then the next round is rallies in smaller cities/towns. I feel like it's a great idea, but one that the unions are very much going to struggle to relinquish control and their veto over what happens in the local groups and nationally.

Yep, that. A struggle that will be about habits of mind and ways of organising, but also one that could limit the reach of EIE into the wider working class. But yeah, don't want to be too negative, let's see.

Sorry if I've missed this, but where does Unite Community sit in all of this?

 

[LDC]

Yep, that. A struggle that will be about habits of mind and ways of organising, but also one that could limit the reach of EIE into the wider working class. But yeah, don't want to be too negative, let's see.

Sorry if I've missed this, but where does Unite Community sit in all of this?

AFAIK no relation or connection to EiE at all so far, nor Unite generally or Unison or GMB, and they've been quiet silent on it from what I can see.

 

[LDC]

First rally tonight as well. Anyone going? Be interested in reports. They've announced Michael Rosen as a speaker, not exactly dynamic or finger on the pulse of youth.

 

[chilango]

At this moment my biggest worry that it, at best, distracts from Don't Pay...at worst, undermines it.

 

[Wilf]

They've announced Michael Rosen as a speaker, not exactly dynamic or finger on the pulse of youth.

Seems like a decent bloke but, as you say, an odd choice. Suppose once you go down the 'rallies' route you almost get stuck with the 'are there any famous people we can invite' question. Gah, some poor instincts in play, but... I don't want to moan before it even starts.

 

[Karl Masks]

At this moment my biggest worry that it, at best, distracts from Don't Pay...at worst, undermines it.

How?

 

[chilango]

How?

a) Diverts energy, attention, resources, activists away from Don't Pay. Becomes the voice of/for protests against the rising costs.

b) Presents itself as "legitimate" protests in contrast to...is happily presented by others as "legitimate" in contrast to...Condemns Don't Pay as anarchist troublemakers, or middle-class radicals, or ineffective or whatever.

Both of which have happened before, many times.

 

[Karl Masks]

a) Diverts energy, attention, resources, activists away from Don't Pay. Becomes the voice of/for protests against the rising costs.

b) Presents itself as "legitimate" protests in contrast to...is happily presented by others as "legitimate" in contrast to...Condemns Don't Pay as anarchist troublemakers, or middle-class radicals, or ineffective or whatever.

Both of which have happened before, many times.

Ok, fair points, but is that happening though?

I'm not seeing what it necessarily follows that EiE diverts from it. I hope that isn't the case - unless they have better ideas that will work. Whatever it takes I suppose.

Perhaps Don't Pay can be endorsed b or become part of the overall EiE campaign?

I know there was that JOE interview with Mick and Eddie where they made some comments about the campaign, I hope that doesn't take root. Not sure what else to say really. I signed up with EiE and untlil I hear more from them I'm not sure what else I can do anyway.

 

[chilango]

Ok, fair points, but is that happening though?

I'm not seeing what it necessarily follows that EiE diverts from it. I hope that isn't the case - unless they have better ideas that will work. Whatever it takes I suppose.

Perhaps Don't Pay can be endorsed b or become part of the overall EiE campaign?

I know there was that JOE interview with Mick and Eddie where they made some comments about the campaign, I hope that doesn't take root. Not sure what else to say really. I signed up with EiE and untlil I hear more from them I'm not sure what else I can do anyway.

No. It doesn't necessarily follow.

EIE might yet show some sort of support to the Don't Pay initiative, formal or otherwise.

I signed up to EIE too in the hope that, for once, history doesn't repeat itself. But bitter personal experience is hard to shake.

 

[Karl Masks]

Well given the apparenty (to my mind) unprecedented degree of crises maybe it won't.

 

[The39thStep]

AFAIK no relation or connection to EiE at all so far, nor Unite generally or Unison or GMB, and they've been quiet silent on it from what I can see.

I would have thought that amongst the stewards in Unite there would be an appetite to join and a mechanism for raising the issue . Regionally or branch wise there would support in Unison ? GMB don’t know about , I had some mates who were in gmb when they were sold out and sacked in the British Gas Strike but haven’t any contacts . You’re in gmb ? Have you raised locally ?

 

[LDC]

I would have thought that amongst the stewards in Unite there would be an appetite to join and a mechanism for raising the issue . Regionally or branch wise there would support in Unison ? GMB don’t know about , I had some mates who were in gmb when they were sold out and sacked in the British Gas Strike but haven’t any contacts . You’re in gmb ? Have you raised locally ?

Yeah raised locally in GMB, told to email the head office.... Feels a bit shit and useless of them that me as a random member has to hassle them to ask what they doing about this stuff and are they going to support it etc.

I think they'll totally be appetite for it among members and reps etc. in all the unions. It's whether the office higher-ups allow that and step outside their boxes in terms of taking risks and working with unions and groups outside their own. My experience of the GMB is that they'd rather scoop their own eyes out than do that. I think it's worth pushing them and being optimistic, although I do feel a bit like chilango as well tbh given the history of this stuff.

 

[The39thStep]

 

[brogdale]

Good stuff, but the lack of diversity amongst the attendees might cause them to think about their SM/outreach etc?

 

[The39thStep]

Good stuff, but the lack of diversity amongst the attendees might cause them to think about their SM/outreach etc?

I don’t think diversity is going to be an issue to be honest . The working class is mixed . It’s the middle class stuff that has the issue .
Anyway the thread on Twitter has made interesting half time reading during the Benfica game .