The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Absolutely. Is there any news on Unite coming on board?
Cost of Living Crisis: Enough is Enough Campaign
- Thread starter Smokeandsteam
- Start date
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I am optimistic about it, and it's exciting. But being aware of the pitfalls and how it might fuck up (and be fucked up) is part of defending that optimism rather than being a fatalistic cynic. I spent a few years in a city that ended up with a similar rush of enthusiasm for Left Unity, then very quickly we ended up with 3 Left Unity's who hated each other and everyone at all normal and sensible stayed well clear of them all.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I agree with most of it, but the pay rise one seems like a mistake to me. For a start it doesn't do anything to address the cost of living problem (if anything it sustains it); secondly it seems a really easy way for the Government to buy off segments of the campaign and thereby cause division.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
They've had more than a decade to do that and haven't done it. But I know where librarians come in the scheme of things so you can be certain it isn't me who'll be bought off
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I don't think it is a mistake. It'd have been bonkers for a pay rise not to be in those demands surely? Whatever the demands might be there's some risk of division/etc. but I think that can be worked out in the process, in fact the process of doing so is probably an important political message and point for all involved isn't it? Emphasize solidarity, etc etc.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
What do you mean sustains it ?
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
As in it allows people to cope with high fuel prices / high inflation / profiteering in the short term, rather than bringing in measures to reduce cost of living (more social housing, more domestic energy production / reductions in demand such as more insulation etc) over a longer period. There is also the very real chance that any big award is inevitably going to result in the cost being passed on to consumers (plus a bit extra for profiteering).
A parallel would be with housing benefit, which almost certainly keeps rents / house prices quite a bit higher than they would be if the state switched over the medium / long term to spending the HB money on building many more council houses.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, exactly. The struggle over the wage is a fundamental struggle within capitalism between labour and capital. To ignore than would have been very odd.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
A pay rise would be a sustained increase, not a temporary boost. Social housing I believe is covered by Demand 4, and I would argue insulation would fit in there too. Edit: Fuck my arguments, insulation is explicitly mentioned.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Yup. Very simply organising collectively , striking and winning a wage rise means that some will be more receptive to the bigger issues that Artaxerxes is on about . You start with a glimpse of workers power and what collectivity can achieve not write it out at the beginning.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The context is different. It's now clear to almost everyone that something is very wrong, and crucially the bribes that were once in place to win the tacit acceptance if not the support of the middle classes no longer seem like things the establishment can actually deliver on. 15% inflation makes a mockery of the patient accumulation of wealth for a comfortable retirement. The near impossibility of seeing a doctor shifts the balance of probability of making it to that retirement in one piece. You can't have your nice holiday by plane because the airports don't work. You can't drive over to France because the ports don't work. And the politicians aren't just failing to provide solutions, for the most part they're failing to even acknowledge that there's a problem.
We're at the point where even the most normal, reasonable, keep-your-head-down-and-it'll-all-be-fine middle Englander must be starting to wonder if there might not need to be something done besides putting faith in a political process and a political class that doesn't seem to exist on the same planet as everything else.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Sure . One of the promsing things is that the RMT and CWU ( Unite ) narrative is that profit has been made at the expense of all those things you mention and very simply everyone deserves better including a wage rise and a normal life . Fingers crossed this has legs.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
I've signed up.
...but I'm sceptical.
It's interesting to compare and contrast with the Don't Pay initiative.
Don't Pay is already on the radar of non-political people I know. It's simple. It makes sense. The action fits the aims. Anybody can just get a bunch of leaflets and get going.
...but I don't know anybody committed to it yet. It appeals, on a superficial level, to an individual consumer logic - although it aims to quickly move beyond that. What happens next when they don't get the million pledges?
We'll see.
On the other hand EIE doesn't really say or show how it's going to actually take action. For the old and cynical among us it's too reminiscent of previous "Labour Movement" responses in parallel to autonomous/spontaneous movements that try and channel the energy into Union stuff (see Poll Tax and the initial "Don't Collect" stance in response to the idea of non-payment, or the response of the likes of the SP to grassroots anti-JSA groups etc etc) to inspire trust or confidence.
Again, we'll see.
Still, things are happening. And that's a start.
...but I'm sceptical.
It's interesting to compare and contrast with the Don't Pay initiative.
Don't Pay is already on the radar of non-political people I know. It's simple. It makes sense. The action fits the aims. Anybody can just get a bunch of leaflets and get going.
...but I don't know anybody committed to it yet. It appeals, on a superficial level, to an individual consumer logic - although it aims to quickly move beyond that. What happens next when they don't get the million pledges?
We'll see.
On the other hand EIE doesn't really say or show how it's going to actually take action. For the old and cynical among us it's too reminiscent of previous "Labour Movement" responses in parallel to autonomous/spontaneous movements that try and channel the energy into Union stuff (see Poll Tax and the initial "Don't Collect" stance in response to the idea of non-payment, or the response of the likes of the SP to grassroots anti-JSA groups etc etc) to inspire trust or confidence.
Again, we'll see.
Still, things are happening. And that's a start.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
Agree with your comments on Don’t Pay. Nicely summarised.
As for EiE, I don’t think anyone on here is starry eyed about it precisely for the reasons you outline (and bitter personal experience).
However, so far EiE have announced 3 ways in which it plans to take action: locally organising support for picket lines (overdue and important given the potential for generalised strike action and to encourage and support other workers in the private sector especially), Rallies (absolutely useless) and community action. In a Tribune interview Mick Lynch set out his thinking on this:
“Well, I think people are waiting for unions, and unions have got to go where the people are. We’ve got to go into working-class communities. Dave Ward of the CWU has been saying this with his New Deal for Workers. We’ve got to find a way of delivering it.
Johnson himself doesn’t know what he believes in. Traditionally, when he spoke to Tory audiences, they found him very attractive. But now he’s spending too much for them and they want more tax cuts. For the last few years, he’s gone to working-class audiences and has resonated there, mainly because Labour wasn’t resonating. Whether we like it or not, in a lot of working-class areas, Jeremy Corbyn didn’t resonate. Starmer thought he was going to resonate, but he’s not really resonating either. Now we’ve got a situation where some trade unions are overtly saying, ‘We’re not that bothered about what the Labour Party is saying. It’s not going to change the landscape politically — but we can do it industrially.’ Dave Ward, Sharon Graham, Gary Smith, and myself, to some degree, are saying that.”
This all needs to be fleshed out (as Lynch himself suggests). I’ve set out my view on what form this should take - link up with Don’t Pay, community action and defence of communities targeted by the state and - and won’t repeat it again, but I don’t doubt other individuals and groups will have a view too.
So, I think a fair summary of EiE at present is a good and necessary intervention (pickets and supporting working class workplace struggle), a really shit idea (rallies full of boring celeb lefties) and one where the jury is out and is embryonic but has genuine potential.
magneze
🎧
Russia-Ukraine war: invasion ‘starting to fail’ and Russian forces suffering huge losses, says UK – as it happened
At a meeting of European defence ministers, Ben Wallace says Russia ‘unlikely to ever succeed in occupying Ukraine’
All this talk of government unable to do anything is rubbish. They're doing that ^ why not tackling one or more of the crises at home? It's a choice they're making.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
We need tanks, don't we?Russia-Ukraine war: invasion ‘starting to fail’ and Russian forces suffering huge losses, says UK – as it happened
At a meeting of European defence ministers, Ben Wallace says Russia ‘unlikely to ever succeed in occupying Ukraine’www.theguardian.com
All this talk of government unable to do anything is rubbish. They're doing that ^ why not tackling one or more of the crises at home? It's a choice they're making.
I find myself a bit ambivalent. I would love a world where no money is spent on defence but I’m not sure we’re in that world. In the stark and unpleasant terms of economic costs, it’s probably a lot cheaper paying for equipment for Ukrainians to grind down the Russians then it is to have to directly fight the Russians. Maybe we’d never be faced with fighting Russians anyway, maybe they’d just stop at Ukraine. How can I possibly know one way or other? I’m not convinced that the decision is unwise in purely cost terms, though.
Preposterous. What would Scrooge McDuck go swimming in?My 10 year old has been radicalised (even further) by all this. She is now, repeatedly, arguing for the abolition of money.
2hats
Dust.
Definitely. Tanks of water and tanks of molten salts.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Makes me feel more than a tad inadequate; I was still banging on about that in pubs up until I was at least 18YoMy 10 year old has been radicalised (even further) by all this. She is now, repeatedly, arguing for the abolition of money.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Been wondering about whether and how to say this. I'm reluctant to criticise anything about this campaign, but honestly feel that it excludes people like me, almost pointedly in a way.
Of course it's important to stress how bad things have got, and how unfair it is, and how much people have the right to be angry about it. But. Working people on benefits, people in work needing to use foodbanks, sounds a bit to me like - and maybe I'm wrong - "the deserving poor," not like those scroungers.
Of course I support the workers, absolutely, but yeah...
Of course it's important to stress how bad things have got, and how unfair it is, and how much people have the right to be angry about it. But. Working people on benefits, people in work needing to use foodbanks, sounds a bit to me like - and maybe I'm wrong - "the deserving poor," not like those scroungers.
Of course I support the workers, absolutely, but yeah...
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Why don’t you contact them to explain this ? I’m sure they would want to include rather than exclude
Similar threads
