Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[Artaxerxes]

And yet... many of us have been pretty surprised by how strongly this was pushed by central govt. Not only strongly pushed but supported by some completely sensible guidance documents containing loads of good stuff based on what people traditionally on the other side from 'the tories' have been saying for ages.

Of course, they might go back on it all in the next couple of years - we'll see.

They are going back on it now as much as they can. They are meeting stubborn resistance. They are also gutting train funding. In regards to doing what people have been asking for years this is part of the problem, government in general does that, it waits 10-20 years then does what it should have done sooner.

We do have to see where this falls out but I'm not confident about the future. This is the very peak of a massive shock to the system and I've no trust or faith in the people in charge.

 

[Humberto]

I thought they cut public spending by half, whilst doubling national debt? Whilst making lots of money for themselves? You are fishing.

 

[Humberto]

And yet... many of us have been pretty surprised by how strongly this was pushed by central govt. Not only strongly pushed but supported by some completely sensible guidance documents containing loads of good stuff based on what people traditionally on the other side from 'the tories' have been saying for ages.

Of course, they might go back on it all in the next couple of years - we'll see.

I thought they cut public spending by half, whilst doubling national debt? Whilst making lots of money for themselves? You are fishing.

 

[teuchter]

I thought they cut public spending by half, whilst doubling national debt? Whilst making lots of money for themselves? You are fishing.

I was talking about bicycle lanes. Not sure what you are on about.

 

[Humberto]

.

 

[Humberto]

I was talking about bicycle lanes. Not sure what you are on about.

Were you fuck. you brought the NHS and Tory 'misguidedness' into it.

 

[Humberto]

Let me get this then: He was talking about bicycle lanes and is 'not sure what I'm on about':?

Anyone having that? I'm not. Continuing to say things only gets you so far. He brought up Tory ideological forgiveness and give them a pass on the NHS.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Er... Yeah, of course they want good economic performance. They are Tories.

do they?

most tory governments seem quite content with lengthy recessions with occasional boomlets just before the election. there's a lot of money to be made out of recessions so long as you've already got plenty of money...

 

[teuchter]

Let me get this then: He was talking about bicycle lanes and is 'not sure what I'm on about':?

Anyone having that? I'm not. Continuing to say things only gets you so far. He brought up Tory ideological forgiveness and give them a pass on the NHS.

What's "ideological forgiveness"?

 

[Artaxerxes]

This sums up a lot if the persistent issues, not just with cycling but literally everything else 'we have a vision to do X, money is spunked about and nothing ever gets built with an actual plan so some bits if the UK get a decent bike lane,others get a white line in the gutter and still noone cycles. We have a vision to cut emmisions, money gets spunked and we're still pumping out carbon and car fumes, no actual joined up plan exists"

Beware ministers bearing targets

The Transport Secretary says the government “want half of all journeys in towns and cities to be cycled or walked by 2030.” But targets are useless if you don’t have a plan to mak…

waronthemotorist.wordpress.com

 

[teuchter]

This sums up a lot if the persistent issues, not just with cycling but literally everything else 'we have a vision to do X, money is spunked about and nothing ever gets built with an actual plan so some bits if the UK get a decent bike lane,others get a white line in the gutter and still noone cycles. We have a vision to cut emmisions, money gets spunked and we're still pumping out carbon and car fumes, no actual joined up plan exists"

Beware ministers bearing targets

The Transport Secretary says the government “want half of all journeys in towns and cities to be cycled or walked by 2030.” But targets are useless if you don’t have a plan to mak…

waronthemotorist.wordpress.com

I've had that blog bookmarked for years but had thought it was dead, so good to see some new posts.
I agree with what is said there.
Nonetheless, I do think that some bits of transport stuff announced during the pandemic were surprising. I've followed it in some detail and I'm quite aware of all the pushback, but there are a few things that might just stick, and they wouldn't have happened without the legislation the current government has done, or at least they have happened a few years earlier than they might have otherwise.
This is not to say I think their wider transport policy overall is any good - it's not, it's rubbish. I don't think we're going to emerge from the pandemic with fundamentally positive changes, my optimism is limited to some slight shifts in what the acceptable norm is, in a very small number of places.

 

[Humberto]

What's "ideological forgiveness"?

I thought you were on a wind up. Seems I misread.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Today's reported figures...

First dose vaccinations now 11,465,210

New cases - 18,262, overall a drop of 25.1% in the last week.

New deaths - 828, which is down 372 on last Saturday's 1,200, that brings the 7-day average down to 932 a day, a drop of 20.9% in the last week.

Another good day -

First dose vaccinations now just over 12m

New cases - 15,845, overall a drop of 24.3% in the last week.

New deaths - 373, which is down 214 on last Sunday's 587, that brings the 7-day average down to 901 a day, a drop of 23.3% in the last week.

 

[souljacker]

Another good day -

First dose vaccinations now just over 12m

New cases - 15,845, overall a drop of 24.3% in the last week.

New deaths - 373, which is down 214 on last Sunday's 587, that brings the 7-day average down to 901 a day, a drop of 23.3% in the last week.

You know what's coming next...

 

[Pickman's model]

You know what's coming next...

Boris Johnson to commit seppuku while addressing the nation?

 

[Pickman's model]

Another good day -

First dose vaccinations now just over 12m

New cases - 15,845, overall a drop of 24.3% in the last week.

New deaths - 373, which is down 214 on last Sunday's 587, that brings the 7-day average down to 901 a day, a drop of 23.3% in the last week.

Think we're more in the another less bad day

We need rather more than fewer deaths, fewer hospitalisations and fewer people testing positive to make it actually good

 

[cupid_stunt]

Think we're more in the another less bad day

We need rather more than fewer deaths, fewer hospitalisations and fewer people testing positive to make it actually good

Like the massive success of the vaccine roll-out programme?

 

[Pickman's model]

Like the massive success of the vaccine roll-out programme?

once again the government's taken a great chance on people's health with the decision to offer the second injection long after a) the time the manufacturer said should happen and b) the government had said would be the case

 

[cupid_stunt]

once again the government's taken a great chance on people's health with the decision to offer the second injection long after a) the time the manufacturer said should happen and b) the government had said would be the case

The scientists recommended the 12 week gap between doses, the WHO has now congratulated the UK scientists on this move, because all the evidence backs them up on this.

It's a bit silly to rightly attack the government for not following advice from SAGE, and then attacking them for actually following the advice on vaccination.

 

[2hats]

The scientists recommended the 12 week gap between doses, the WHO has now congratulated the UK scientists on this move, because all the evidence backs them up on this.

Actually, a significant number of virologists are concerned about this, not least because this is akin to the method that they are using in the lab to encourage viral mutation in order that they can better investigate potential, as yet unknown, escape variants.

 

[Pickman's model]

The scientists recommended the 12 week gap between doses, the WHO has now congratulated the UK scientists on this move, because all the evidence backs them up on this.

It's a bit silly to rightly attack the government for not following advice from SAGE, and then attacking them for actually following the advice on vaccination.

I don't think I have attacked the government for not following the advice from sage

Not recently at any rate. Note to self: must attack govt more for not following sage advice

 

[Pickman's model]

Actually, a significant number of virologists are concerned about this, not least because this is akin to the method that they are using in the lab to encourage viral mutation in order that they can better investigate potential, as yet unknown, escape variants.

The govt very much at fault I believe for creating the UK variant in the first place with its poor decisions so they've form for this sort of thing

 

[platinumsage]

Actually, a significant number of virologists are concerned about this, not least because this is akin to the method that they are using in the lab to encourage viral mutation in order that they can better investigate potential, as yet unknown, escape variants.

A small minority. It's not really a concern of most scientists tbh.

Apart from flu which is kinda special at recombining, viruses have a very hard time evading vaccines. Look at measles which mutates like mofo but doesn't have much luck with it.

 

[kabbes]

Actually, a significant number of virologists are concerned about this, not least because this is akin to the method that they are using in the lab to encourage viral mutation in order that they can better investigate potential, as yet unknown, escape variants.

What happens to pathogens when exposed to something in vitro can be wildly different than what happens to them when similarly exposed in vivo, though

 

[andysays]

The scientists recommended the 12 week gap between doses, the WHO has now congratulated the UK scientists on this move, because all the evidence backs them up on this.

It's a bit silly to rightly attack the government for not following advice from SAGE, and then attacking them for actually following the advice on vaccination.

The last I read, the advice from the WHO hadn't changed and, from memory, was still suggesting six weeks as a maximum.

Do you have a source for this new position?

 

[cupid_stunt]

The last I read, the advice from the WHO hadn't changed and, from memory, was still suggesting six weeks as a maximum.

Do you have a source for this new position?

Interview on Sky's Sophy Ridge on Sunday show.

 

[andysays]

Interview on Sky's Sophy Ridge on Sunday show.

Thanks, I can't see anything about it on the BBC website.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The last I read, the advice from the WHO hadn't changed and, from memory, was still suggesting six weeks as a maximum.

Do you have a source for this new position?

Oh, and so did the head of the Oxford vaccine development programme, on the Marr show this morning.

 

[2hats]

A small minority. It's not really a concern of most scientists tbh.

I'm sure it's not the concern of "most scientists", which is why I said virologists.

Apart from flu which is kinda special at recombining, viruses have a very hard time evading vaccines. Look at measles which mutates like mofo but doesn't have much luck with it.

Influenza is a much better choice for comparison than measles. That's because the measles virus receptor binding site is fragile so has limited degrees of mutagenic freedom (DOI: 10.1101/2020.10.22.351189); most of those mutations are non-advantageous (though more recently wild types have begun to demonstrate a degree of escape from vaccine mediated neutralising sera - DOI: 10.1002/1096-9071(200009)62:1%3C91::AID-JMV14%3E3.0.CO;2-B & DOI: 10.1093/infdis/jir106).

SARS-CoV-2 has so far only explored a fraction of its mutagenic space, and that, in the wild, in a relatively short time. Besides RBD mutations, the spike has an unusually high degree of conformational plasticity and that even contributes to antibody evasion through concealment of key epitopes in the NTD, where the virus has been playing with a lot of deletions. Now we are seeing co-infections, sooner or later we are probably also going to start seeing recombination events as well.

What happens to pathogens when exposed to something in vitro can be wildly different than what happens to them when similarly exposed in vivo, though

Absolutely, but that unfortunately cuts both ways (eg vaccine sera variant efficacy studies).

 

[Brainaddict]

Feeling pretty fucked off that they didn't bother to shut the border with South Africa in a timely way. It now looks like if it takes hold as a dominant variant then the vaccination program will be worth much less than we thought. They're still fucking up in ways that anyone with common sense would be able to avoid and it makes me wish death on them.

Oxford Covid vaccine has 10% efficacy against South African variant, study suggests

Small-scale trial of vaccine shows it offers very little protection against mild to moderate infection

www.theguardian.com