Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[chilango]

why the fuck are there even bars in parliament? what other workplaces have bars?

if I was more petition minded Id start one calling for their permanent closure. if for no other reason than to piss the bastards off.

 

[existentialist]

why the fuck are there even bars in parliament? what other workplaces have bars?

if I was more petition minded Id start one calling for their permanent closure. if for no other reason than to piss the bastards off.

It wouldn't piss them off, because they know that there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it.

 

[killer b]

what other workplaces have bars?

Used to be loads - it's a throwback to times when workforces had more power in the workplace. I guess that's still true in the Houses of Parliament.

 

[emanymton]

Inertia and people just aren't willing to cut themselves off for months at a time.

Fortunately that's never been a problem for me.

This, I think there is less willingness to follow this part of the rules now. Also I think the way people perceive risk is often as something external to ourselves and our friends and family. People will feel more at risk on a bus with strangers who are wearing masks and social distanced than they they will having few friends and family round who are packed in a smaller space with no masks.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This is worrying, Bolton went into 'lockdown' almost 3 weeks ago, with some of the strictest rules, including the closure of pubs & restaurants, yet cases have almost doubled in that time from around 120 to almost 240 new cases per 100,000, based on the 7-day rolling average.

At the time Bolton had the highest infection rates, yet four other areas with less strict 'lockdowns' have now overtaken them.

Bolton's 7-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases rises but falls to 5th highest in country

BOLTON's seven-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases has risen slightly but fallen one place from fourth to the fifth highest in the country,…

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

 

[emanymton]

This is worrying, Bolton went into 'lockdown' almost 3 weeks ago, with some of the strictest rules, including the closure of pubs & restaurants, yet cases have almost doubled in that time from around 120 to almost 240 new cases per 100,000, based on the 7-day rolling average.

At the time Bolton had the highest infection rates, yet four other areas with less strict 'lockdowns' have now overtaken them.

Bolton's 7-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases rises but falls to 5th highest in country

BOLTON's seven-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases has risen slightly but fallen one place from fourth to the fifth highest in the country,…

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

I think it might be a little early to judge the effect of the lockdown. But this is my worry. The rule on not mixing just gets ignored, but it is probably the most important part.

I guess Bolton will be a bit of an experiment on how effective certain measures are.

 

[teuchter]

This is worrying, Bolton went into 'lockdown' almost 3 weeks ago, with some of the strictest rules, including the closure of pubs & restaurants, yet cases have almost doubled in that time from around 120 to almost 240 new cases per 100,000, based on the 7-day rolling average.

At the time Bolton had the highest infection rates, yet four other areas with less strict 'lockdowns' have now overtaken them.

Bolton's 7-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases rises but falls to 5th highest in country

BOLTON's seven-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases has risen slightly but fallen one place from fourth to the fifth highest in the country,…

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

If it was at 120 cases on 8th Sept when it went into lockdown, 196 on the 17th, and 238 on the 24th, then that's not really worrying; it actually means a slightly decreasing rate of increase, which is presumably what you'd want to see in the period immediately after measures come in. It would be unrealistic to expect it to stop dropping that quickly. 24th is only just over 2 weeks in.

 

[retribution]

If it was at 120 cases on 8th Sept when it went into lockdown, 196 on the 17th, and 238 on the 24th, then that's not really worrying; it actually means a slightly decreasing rate of increase, which is presumably what you'd want to see in the period immediately after measures come in. It would be unrealistic to expect it to stop dropping that quickly. 24th is only just over 2 weeks in.

I've family in Bolton and I think the rules there atm are something similar to what we went to here in Melbourne on 8 July. Melbourne carried on climbing for a good four weeks, then a much stricter lockdown was introduced on 2 August which has brought us right down (5 cases today!). Totally different population etc of course, but it perhaps gives you an idea of how effective a Bolton level of lockdown is (or isn't) when COVID gets to certain numbers.

 

[TopCat]

This is worrying, Bolton went into 'lockdown' almost 3 weeks ago, with some of the strictest rules, including the closure of pubs & restaurants, yet cases have almost doubled in that time from around 120 to almost 240 new cases per 100,000, based on the 7-day rolling average.

At the time Bolton had the highest infection rates, yet four other areas with less strict 'lockdowns' have now overtaken them.

Bolton's 7-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases rises but falls to 5th highest in country

BOLTON's seven-day rolling rate of new coronavirus cases has risen slightly but fallen one place from fourth to the fifth highest in the country,…

www.theboltonnews.co.uk

With cases doubling in the uk each week, Bolton has done well no?

 

[Dogsauce]

According to my parents, my sister (Primary school teacher) is claiming there’s been an outbreak in the town she lives in and surrounding area, seventy positive cases, caused by someone having a test but still going out round the pubs before they got this result. However the results from today show an increase of only four cases reported in the whole of North Somerset.

Could this be a new flavour of fake news/rumour mongering going into circulation, possibly aiming to sow division, public blaming and finger pointing? Would be interesting to see where this kind of bullshit originates, I suspect it’s probably local Facebook groups.

 

[cupid_stunt]

If it was at 120 cases on 8th Sept when it went into lockdown, 196 on the 17th, and 238 on the 24th, then that's not really worrying; it actually means a slightly decreasing rate of increase, which is presumably what you'd want to see in the period immediately after measures come in. It would be unrealistic to expect it to stop dropping that quickly. 24th is only just over 2 weeks in.

With cases doubling in the uk each week, Bolton has done well no?

Good points.

 

[Dogsauce]

According to my parents, my sister (Primary school teacher) is claiming there’s been an outbreak in the town she lives in and surrounding area, seventy positive cases, caused by someone having a test but still going out round the pubs before they got this result. However the results from today show an increase of only four cases reported in the whole of North Somerset.

Could this be a new flavour of fake news/rumour mongering going into circulation, possibly aiming to sow division, public blaming and finger pointing? Would be interesting to see where this kind of bullshit originates, I suspect it’s probably local Facebook groups.

I have since found an article (but only through some weird news SEO/aggregation site) that details one pub in town where staff all undertook testing after a customer had a positive test. The customer had been out on a ‘pub crawl‘ at the weekend but only tested positive midweek (so unlikely to have been waiting on a test result when out boozing, and may not even have had symptoms then). All staff results had come back negative bar one which hadn’t been received yet. Sounds like Chinese whispers and shit stirring.

 

[elbows]

Under the new emergency plan, all pubs, restaurants and bars would be ordered to shut for two weeks initially. Households would also be banned indefinitely from meeting each other in any indoor location where they were not already under the order. Schools would stay open as well as shops, factories and offices at which staff could not work from home.

The social lockdown was among options presented to the cabinet’s Covid-19 strategy committee before last week’s new restrictions, which included a 10pm curfew on all hospitality venues. The Times has learnt that the group of six ministers, led by Boris Johnson, held them back, fearing a backlash from Tory MPs and sections of the public.

From the Times but I'm going for th Guardian quote of this as it isnt paywalled. 1m ago 11:39

A bit of the TImes version taken from daily newspaper front page images:

 

[MrSki]

Now here is a surprise. Parliament's bars exempt from 10pm curfew.


ETA Outcry has worked & will now not serve after 10pm.

Just announced that they will not be serving after 10pm. Maybe Guy Fawkes trending on twitter made them have a re-think.

 

[editor]

If the pubs have to close again for two weeks or longer, I fear that may be the end for some unless the government offers some meaningful support.

 

[Lurdan]

From the Times but I'm going for th Guardian quote of this as it isnt paywalled. 1m ago 11:3

FWIW someone's archived the online Times version here.

 

[Supine]

FWIW someone's archived the online Times version here.

OMG I agree with Gove about something!

"Michael Gove, the Cabinet Office minister, has emerged as the leading voice in the cabinet for more restrictions, overtaking Matt Hancock, the health secretary. Another senior Tory source added: “Michael is the most hard now on all of this. He was pushing for all manner of restrictions last week.”

 

[Ms Ordinary]

This, I think there is less willingness to follow this part of the rules now. Also I think the way people perceive risk is often as something external to ourselves and our friends and family. People will feel more at risk on a bus with strangers who are wearing masks and social distanced than they they will having few friends and family round who are packed in a smaller space with no masks.

I do think it's really important that we try & understand the difference between our perception of risk, and our actual risk (to ourselves, & to others).

I keep having conversations at work of the type "I hear that infections are rising, but I just don't really feel any more at risk than a couple of weeks ago" and these are people that are mostly doing their best to understand it.

And - exactly as you say - they might try & avoid risky behaviour to varying degrees, but they just don't feel at risk amongst family (or work colleagues) yet. And if I'm honest, neither do I - at least I couldn't function if I felt perpetually fearful - but I try my best to understand that I am a risk, if that makes sense.

Somehow breaking the link between 'risk avoidance' and 'fearfulness' would help, I think. Or maybe that's just because I work with fairly macho types. (Male & female... )

 

[Orang Utan]

If the pubs have to close again for two weeks or longer, I fear that may be the end for some unless the government offers some meaningful support.

They’ve just done the equivalent of a so-what-shrug about it on Sky:

 

[bimble]

From the Times but I'm going for th Guardian quote of this as it isnt paywalled. 1m ago 11:39

A bit of the TImes version taken from daily newspaper front page images:

View attachment 232130

That first paragraph is pretty unequivocal, doesn’t say ‘according to ...’ or ‘are cosidering’.
If you had a partner type person in London and would rather lock down for two weeks together than apart would you go get them today?

 

[elbows]

That first paragraph is pretty unequivocal, doesn’t say ‘according to ...’ or ‘are cosidering’.
If you had a partner type person in London and would rather lock down for two weeks together than apart would you go get them today?

I find it harder to predict the timing of things this time around, because in some ways things are evolving in slow motion compared to March.

So I cant give concrete info, but I would estimate that there will be more clues when such a move is imminent, and if its like nearly every other thing they've done then there will be a gap between it being announced and it actually taking effect.

If I had to make that decision I probably would not act today, but I would figure out the personal plan and be ready to act at short notice. Alternatively, since a lot of what does peoples heads in is the uncertainty, some may prefer to act early in order to retain some sense of control and bypass some of the uncertainties.

 

[Wilf]

Now here is a surprise. Parliament's bars exempt from 10pm curfew.


ETA Outcry has worked & will now not serve after 10pm.

To be fair, I think they are entitled to a few drinks after a hard day on the grouse moor.

 

[8ball]

If the pubs have to close again for two weeks or longer, I fear that may be the end for some unless the government offers some meaningful support.

I fear you may be right there. Also seems you had a point about our “singular drinking culture”, judging by some of the shenanigans going on.

 

[two sheds]

Neighbours I go socially distanced dog walking with said yesterday they're shielding from their grandchildren again (Cornwall) because of schools going back. Good decision, I was a bit concerned.

 

[editor]

They’ve just done the equivalent of a so-what-shrug about it on Sky:

All that fucking money slopping around. All those billionaires. All that fucking greed. And they're hanging pubs, clubs, bands, artists, musicians out to dry while they were happy to throw hundreds of millions to bail out the banks with all their monster earning bosses. It's a fucking shitty world we live in alright.

 

[editor]

I fear you may be right there. Also seems you had a point about our “singular drinking culture”, judging by some of the shenanigans going on.

Shutting pubs at 10pm is insane. People just start earlier, drink more, accelerating up to an alcoholic frenzy by the 10pm kick out, and then are pissed enough not to care/remember about the virus and head off to the nearest house party.,

 

[killer b]

They’ve just done the equivalent of a so-what-shrug about it on Sky:

It's interesting to see what she says - the reason for the fudge of pubs being open with reduced hours is the avoidance of paying any compensation to the industry IMO - if they did close them, it would be unavoidable there would have to be some additional support.

 

[elbows]

Shutting pubs at 10pm is insane. People just start earlier, drink more, accelerating up to an alcoholic frenzy by the 10pm kick out, and then are pissed enough not to care/remember about the virus and head off to the nearest house party.,

Ties into the earlier stuff about Goves new pandemic stance, the following from a Mail on Sunday article but covered by the Guardian: 3h ago 09:34

When the issue was put to the full cabinet on Tuesday, resistance flared again when business secretary Alok Sharma and environment secretary George Eustice suggested that it would be safer to taper the curfew with last orders at 10pm, rather than force everyone on to the streets at the same time.

But Mr Gove insisted that there should be a strict 10pm ‘guillotine’.

 

[Badgers]

It's interesting to see what she says - the reason for the fudge of pubs being open with reduced hours is the avoidance of paying any compensation to the industry IMO - if they did close them, it would be unavoidable there would have to be some additional support.

They will blame the hospitality industry for not implementing the rules. They will blame the public for not obeying the rules.

 

[elbows]

And of course there have been stories like this one floating around for days:

The Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) reportedly did not model the effect of a 10pm curfew, and the behavioural science sub-group was also not consulted on the change.

Key members of the committee are said to have told the government there is no evidence that the curfew would be effective.

A Member Of Sage Has Claimed The “Trivial” 10pm Curfew Will Have Little Impact On Slowing Coronavirus Infections

Professor John Edmunds, a member of the Sage advisory group, has said the impact on the 10pm curfew will be trivial as he warned current measures d...

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