Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[SlideshowBob]

Really not good news from Scotland today

Jason Leitch: Pandemic is 'accelerating' in Scotland

The Scottish government confirms 714 more people have tested positive in the past 24 hours.

www.bbc.co.uk

Expect a good half of this will be the cases in universities continuing to spread rapidly. Although the danger is if people haven't self-isolated quickly enough then it's potentially already started to spread beyond students in some areas.

 

[zora]

Guardian headline right now "'France's wave arriving faster than we thought' says top [French] doctor".
If anyone says "faster than we thought" or "unforeseen increase" one more time, I might just forget myself!

 

[TopCat]

Students self isolating in tiny rooms with shared kitchens and bathrooms is not conducive to limiting covid spread.

 

[redsquirrel]

Guardian headline right now "'France's wave arriving faster than we thought' says top [French] doctor".
If anyone says "faster than we thought" or "unforeseen increase" one more time, I might just forget myself!

This line reminds me all those Labour MPs saying that no one could have predicated that Iraq's supply of WMD was non-existent. Predicted by no one apart from over 50% of the country you lying fucks, just like here.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Really not good news from Scotland today

Jason Leitch: Pandemic is 'accelerating' in Scotland

The Scottish government confirms 714 more people have tested positive in the past 24 hours.

www.bbc.co.uk

Somewhat misleading headline from The Herald, as it is only referring to one day's test results, which tend to go up & down all the time in local areas, the 7-day average tends to be the better guide, it's certainly not good, but not as bad as the headline suggests.

Coronavirus: Glasgow has highest Covid cases in UK

GLASGOW has the highest incidence of Covid in the UK, in the latest daily figures on the pandemic.

www.heraldscotland.com

The daily figures - compiled by the Travelling Tabby tracker site - also puts Glasgow highest in the UK for prevalence, at 39.5 per 100,000 compared to 36.7 in Liverpool. Edinburgh was ninth in the daily chart, with 80 new cases.

The seven-day average continues to put overall prevalence highest in Liverpool and Bolton with 261.2 and 250 cases per 100,000 respectively.

In comparison, Glasgow has a seven-day average of 165.2 cases per 100,000, with Edinburgh much lower on 60.6 cases per 100,000.

 

[zora]

Crikey. Shop really busy today. Yesterday, too, according to my colleagues - and the figures bear it out. For the first time since reopening this central London shop was up to 3/4 its usual Saturday takings.
What exactly about the current situation compared to previous weekends is making people think: "Wicked, let's go Saturday shopping in the West End" is beyond me..?

 

[maomao]

What exactly about the current situation compared to previous weekends is making people think: "Wicked, let's go Saturday shopping in the West End" is beyond me..?

Last chance. Maybe last chance till next year.

 

[Supine]

Nottingham was really busy yesterday. Lots of groups on pub crawls. It was like things used to be...

 

[zora]

Last chance. Maybe last chance till next year.

Yeah I would get that, and we had a couple of people mentioning this over the past week, but somehow that's not the vibe I am picking up today.

 

[teuchter]

I have to confess I did a bit of shopping this weekend on the basis of just in case it's the last chance for a while (and the weather being less attractive for outdoors stuff than the last little while). It did seem quite busy everywhere.

 

[editor]

This seems a good counter point to conspiracy nuts insisting that Sweden 'did nothing' and all was well

You never hear the Telegraph or the Mail say that we need Swedish levels of sickness benefit to ensure that carriers stay at home and quarantine. Or Swedish levels of housing benefit to ensure that they aren’t evicted from those same homes. The knights of the suburbs do not insist that the hundreds of thousands who will be thrown on the dole in the coming months need Swedish levels of unemployment benefit and an interventionist Scandinavian state to retrain them.

Covid-19 is exposing the lack of social solidarity in Britain. For a moment when the virus hit we stood together. We locked down voluntarily and applauded the NHS. Millions of people, and not only Conservative voters, were prepared to overlook the dismal truth that we had a comedy prime minister who was tragically unequipped to lead a country in a crisis. The symbolic moment of disintegration historians will remember was Johnson’s refusal to sack Dominic Cummings when he broke the rules everyone else believed they had a patriotic duty to obey. But all around us there have been hundreds of thousands of quiet disintegrations as lives were lost and families were forced to beg at food banks. Soon, millions of lives will disintegrate as government support is slashed.

Welcome to libertarian Covid fantasy land – that’s Sweden to you and me | Nick Cohen

The right fails to recognise that the Swedes’ real virtue in this pandemic is their social cohesion

www.theguardian.com

 

[ddraig]

Went for food and drink in Cardiff city centre before lockdown at 6pm tonight

Went to a pub and waited at door to be seated, we were at door that was "entrance only" asked to sit outside and were going through contact details with staff member, all of us wearing masks.
Someone appeared at the door from inside and squeezed past us!! I started to say wtf and protest and the person "booking us in" said oh they work here and were exempt! And they've just finished shift not hanging about.
The other door is about 8/10 ft away.
They may be exempt from procedure/direction in pub but not for on 2m rule!! Grrr

 

[elbows]

Food manufacturing – and meat processing plants in particular – have been at the heart of several major local outbreaks, with workers reporting cramped conditions and pressure not to take days off even when displaying symptoms.

But just 47 notifications of Covid-19 workplace infections – and no deaths – have been reported to the Health and Safety Executive (HSE) by food manufacturing companies, who employ 430,000 people in the UK.

An investigation by Pirc, which advises shareholders on ethical investment, found that there have been at least 1,461 infections and six deaths, with the true figures likely to be even higher.

Pirc said the discrepancy was partly due to a loophole that allows companies to determine whether employees were infected on the job, or elsewhere, when they submit reports via the HSE’s Riddor reporting system.

One person interviewed for the report told of fake safety audits at a large plant in Lincolnshire, adding that staff had been told to wear cake boxes as makeshift masks.

“Audits are a sham,” said another interviewee. “Auditors sit in an office for an hour when they arrive to do paperwork and everyone cleans up the plant.”

Covid cases at UK food factories could be over 30 times higher than reported

Investigation warns employers have too much influence over official data amid claims of fake safety audits

www.theguardian.com

 

[Mation]

Went for food and drink in Cardiff city centre before lockdown at 6pm tonight

Went to a pub and waited at door to be seated, we were at door that was "entrance only" asked to sit outside and were going through contact details with staff member, all of us wearing masks.
Someone appeared at the door from inside and squeezed past us!! I started to say wtf and protest and the person "booking us in" said oh they work here and were exempt! And they've just finished shift not hanging about.
The other door is about 8/10 ft away.
They may be exempt from procedure/direction in pub but not for on 2m rule!! Grrr

At work there is a place where you can either go from A to B one way, in the open air, or take a shortcut, squeezing past other people, and save yourself about 2-3 seconds. People seem to think I'm being weird or rude when I ask them to wait or go round the other way, rather than squeeze past me. And this in a workplace where we know people who've died from this fucking thing. It's utterly bewildering

 

[ddraig]

At work there is a place where you can either go from A to B one way, in the open air, or take a shortcut, squeezing past other people, and save yourself about 2-3 seconds. People seem to think I'm being weird or rude when I ask them to wait or go round the other way, rather than squeeze past me. And this in a workplace where we know people who've died from this fucking thing. It's utterly bewildering

Yup, just not worth it and weird

 

[scifisam]

At work there is a place where you can either go from A to B one way, in the open air, or take a shortcut, squeezing past other people, and save yourself about 2-3 seconds. People seem to think I'm being weird or rude when I ask them to wait or go round the other way, rather than squeeze past me. And this in a workplace where we know people who've died from this fucking thing. It's utterly bewildering

It's a bit like the pedestrians who would rather walk into traffic than cross at the crossing right next to them. What a crap reason to die or be injured or cause someone else to feel guilty for harming you.

 

[weepiper]

I've just seen a tweet from my local intensive care unit saying they've just released a Covid patient to a ward after a hundred and seventy two days. He must have been one of the first people in Scotland to get it.

 

[Bwark]

It's more about younger people thinking they are invincible and may or may not be "going to get the virus"
They are going to be the ones that makes this worse, or decide to be adults and follow the rules. They are the key to if this becomes worse or better. I am at risk and I've tried shields (thanks urban) and masks but even so I'm frightened to get the virus and wonder how long it will take to get back to real life

 

[Bwark]

We had a lemonade delivery lorry when I were a lad in Kent. Mind you, it was North Kent if that helps.

We did too, I'm trying to remember the name of them

 

[Orang Utan]

It's more about younger people thinking they are invincible and may or may not be "going to get the virus"
They are going to be the ones that makes this worse, or decide to be adults and follow the rules. They are the key to if this becomes worse or better. I am at risk and I've tried shields (thanks urban) and masks but even so I'm frightened to get the virus and wonder how long it will take to get back to real life

Again blaming young people. The selfishness is universal

 

[Bwark]

Again blaming young people. The selfishness is universal

It's not about selfishness, it's far more about younger people not realising they might have the virus without knowing it and visiting at risk relatives or family and passing it on

 

[Bwark]

All the news and information points toward lots of cases but no deaths. But those young people will visit vulnerable people and that will equal deaths eventually

 

[Orang Utan]

It's not about selfishness, it's far more about younger people not realising they might have the virus without knowing it and visiting at risk relatives or family and passing it on

it is selfish - but all ages are doing this

 

[SlideshowBob]

All the news and information points toward lots of cases but no deaths. But those young people will visit vulnerable people and that will equal deaths eventually

I think most young people are acutely aware of the dangers the virus poses. Some will break the rules but I don't think they're necessarily worse for it than any other demographic. Plenty of the most fervent anti-lockdown types are a lot older.

 

[elbows]

All the news and information points toward lots of cases but no deaths. But those young people will visit vulnerable people and that will equal deaths eventually

Rates are up in a broader range of age groups, especially people of working age.

Speaking of working, young people dont just come into contact with older people due to visiting family etc, and indeed the only young person I know who had Covid-19 in the first wave worked in a care home and probably caught it there.

Just because the 20-29 age group is top of the following chart, doesnt mean the other ages that are also showing increases are not a significant part of the picture.


(from https://assets.publishing.service.g...COVID19_Surveillance_Report_week_39_FINAL.pdf )

As for deaths, its a little soon for me to go on about that much but the indicators are there, and the idea that the virus is mostly just passing between people who arent vulnerable at the moment is shown to be false. When the number of people in hospital hit a low it was the end of August/start of September, and the number in hospital got down to the 400's for England. As of official figures for 27th September it has gone back up to over 1700 in hospital with Covid-19 in England.

 

[Aladdin]

it is selfish - but all ages are doing this

I'm afraid that Bwark does have a point.
The under 20s are going out and meeting up. I see little gangs of them every day...maybe 4 or 5 together. Just walking around doing what teenagers do. They're outside...they think they're ok. And the schools are back.
The thing is that it is known now that there are plenty asymptomatic cases.
The kids go home and meet family. All you need is a family gathering and the virus takes off.

Over here Dublin is now on a level 3 stage. So is Donegal. And it's looking like it could move to level 4. The rest of the country is at level 2 but could move to level 3 soon.

In the case of Donegal the numbers shot up over a 2 week period. There have been deaths ... not many but still...and the deaths were people who were vulnerable or elderly. One GP in a small town saw a jump of 47 cases. He tracked them all and traced it back to a first holy communion that was held recently. The parents and kids were socially distanced at the servive but it was afterwards that people got together and visited family, friends and relatives. The Dublin archbishop Martin had already told parishes not to rush into these types of services and to leave them for another year. But families had clothes bought and 8 year olds grow fast etc etc...so they thought they'd go ahead and be ok. Unfortunately they created a situation where the virus passed rapidly among the community and eventually hit the vulnerable.

I think anyone who has a serious vulnerability is pretty scared of this virus. I know I'm really scared of it because I know I'm one of the people it will take.
Bwark is right. Schools are to remain open here through all 5 stages. Young people will not intend to be spreaders but the virus wont discriminate. All it needs is a host. It doesn't care what age. Younger people will get it and many will be asymptomatic. It will spread in the community because schools are in communities.
They keep saying it's spreading in the community. And nobody is stating the obvious...schools are places where young people are mixing. But nobody is going to shut schools down again.

They've told all third level colleges here to work online for the next three weeks. I can see that being extended.
But the under 18s in schools will be going to school mixing on school buses and in cramped classrooms.
They're basically just a big petrie dish.


.

 

[emanymton]

I was thinking about this while unable to sleep, so this is probably total bullshit like most insomnia induced thoughts I have.

But I am not sure that any new lockdown measures can do much to reduce infection rates. I think a lot of infections comes from households mixing either at peoples homes or in pubs and do on. And I think rules on household mixing are frankly just being ignored as people have got fed up no seeing friends and family. Not only are people ignoring it, but it us essentially impossible to police, unless people are having large and loud parties.

One of the effects of tougher lockdown measures is to increase peoples perception of the risk and make them less likely to engage in risky behaviour, but I am not convinced it will have much impact on household mixing.

 

[Steel Icarus]

I was thinking about this while unable to sleep, so this is probably total bullshit like most insomnia induced thoughts I have.

But I am not sure that any new lockdown measures can do much to reduce infection rates. I think a lot of infections comes from households mixing either at peoples homes or in pubs and do on. And I think rules on household mixing are frankly just being ignored as people have got fed up no seeing friends and family. Not only are people ignoring it, but it us essentially impossible to police, unless people are having large and loud parties.

One of the effects of tougher lockdown measures is to increase peoples perception of the risk and make them less likely to engage in risky behaviour, but I am not convinced it will have much impact on household mixing.

It worked before. What's changed?

 

[Artaxerxes]

It worked before. What's changed?

Inertia and people just aren't willing to cut themselves off for months at a time.

Fortunately that's never been a problem for me.

 

[MrSki]

Now here is a surprise. Parliament's bars exempt from 10pm curfew.


ETA Outcry has worked & will now not serve after 10pm.