Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion

[andysays]

Eh?

I was thinking that we'd have been hearing Space Oddity everywhere and that I wouldn't have liked it to be associated with this.

That as well

 

[The39thStep]

Apparently Captain Tom has now raised more than £20,000,000

I think he risks wearing a path in the tarmac of his garden

Need to get a few of these old people out crowdfunding for Trident

 

[existentialist]

I have to pay £4.20 for 3 miles.

That's nothin'. I had to build my OWN t'bus out of twigs and bits that had fallen off cars, and then I had to t'pedal, AND pay £40,000 for the privilege.

 

[teqniq]

No PPE
Gets coughed on by a patient sick with Covid-19
Starts experiencing syptoms
Told to self-isolate
Tries ringing 111 when at home but can't get through.
Gets found dead by police afer a relative pleads with them to break in
Nerver married as was supporting his four nieces and nephew in the Philippines.

I am fucking angry.

Filipino nurse in London found dead alone while in COVID-19 quarantine

Fifty-one-year-old Donald Suelto, a Filipino nurse in London who got infected with COVID-19, died alone in his flat while on quarantine.

cnnphilippines.com

E2a notice the reportage is from CNN Philipines. It happened on 5th April - and it's the first I've heard of it.

Remains of NHS workers who died of coronavirus lost for days

 

[teqniq]

So the BBC got it's story wrong and the "Boss of an NHS Trust" wasn't anything of the sort.

That is either the shoddiest journalism in the world, or someone's had a word about how a government mouthpiece should behave.

It's an interesting one. The "Boss" was unnamed in the original story, so its not like they were going to sue. The BBC appears, however, to have completely removed the original article, at least from search engines (I've tried - the story was referenced by many other news organisations, all of which appear in searches, but not the BBC story). And the apology was huge, the second biggest story this morning on the BBC website. Looks like government pressure to me.

What story is this? If you have a link for the original, have you tried the wayback machine?

 

[wayward bob]

Yeh, that daily slide about how many people are using their cars... what the actual fuck.

Maybe you should have a slide showing you're not testing ANYONE arriving at our airports, even from China, Spain and Italy while you've got Hancock saying we have 'spare capacity' on tests.

there's a year-old presentation of whitty's on pandemic planning on youtube.



the takeaway points for me were 1) that he figured anything to do with limiting or closing airports is impossible and/or useless, never to be considered and 2) that "waiting for a vaccine" is a pretend answer in terms of how to get out of it

(apols if repeat post//previously discussed at length, wrong thread etc...)

 

[planetgeli]

What story is this? If you have a link for the original, have you tied the wayback machine?

BBC correction on Burberry coronavirus plea

An article about PPE for health workers mistakenly attributed a claim to the boss of an NHS trust.

www.bbc.co.uk

That's the apology.

NHS boss begs for help from Burberry to help make PPE

The unnamed trust chief described Health Secretary Matt Hancock's denial of a PPE shortage as a ‘fantasy’.

metro.co.uk

That's the Metro version of the original story. As you can see, it paints Hancock in a bad light and calls his version of the PPE shortage 'a fantasy'.

Smacks of government interference in the, ahem, impartiality of the BBC.

What's 'wayback'?

 

[teqniq]

Wayback Machine

archive.org

Independent cache of web pages. Great for finding stuff that has been deleted/changed. If you know the url of the original BBC article it'll most likely still be there.

 

[Dogsauce]

Wonder if there’s any major heists going on at present? I bet you could totally pull off some of that Hatton Garden type shit at the moment what with no fucker being about, although might be more detectable at street level due to less background noise.

 

[elbows]

Wayback Machine

archive.org

Independent cache of web pages. Great for finding stuff that has been deleted/changed. If you know the url of the original BBC article it'll most likely still be there.

Here:

NHS boss: 'I need gowns, can I call Burberry?'

The director of an NHS Trust says staff only have enough protective gowns to last them for 24 hours.

web.archive.org

 

[teqniq]

Nice one elbows

 

[Petcha]

there's a year-old presentation of whitty's on pandemic planning on youtube.



the takeaway points for me were 1) that he figured anything to do with limiting or closing airports is impossible and/or useless, never to be considered and 2) that "waiting for a vaccine" is a pretend answer in terms of how to get out of it

(apols if repeat post//previously discussed at length, wrong thread etc...)

I think it's been conclusively been proven that this guy is an incompetent idiot

 

[Numbers]

I liked him at first and thought we were safe in his consultary hands.

 

[teqniq]

Pretty much as suspected, it's all about protecting capital and fuck the ordinary people:

 

[littlebabyjesus]

It's hard to satirise, this. It really is. You think you've said something crazy then reality pops up to match it.

Mark Steel hit the nail on the head a couple of days ago.

Mark Steel: Now’s no time for hard questions about coronavirus – save them for when there's nothing the government can do about it

Matt Hancock also understands you have to be cruel to be kind, which is why he told NHS staff the “shortages” of protective equipment were because they weren’t using it properly. “We need everyone to treat PPE like the precious resource it is,” he said, and “use the equipment they clinically need, in line with the guidelines.”
I hope they take notice, because he knows so much more than medical staff, about how to use medical equipment. Maybe he should pop into a hospital and show them how to carry out a liver transplant, without wasting bandages and paracetamol like they usually do.

Hancock probably will do something exactly that mad now.

 

[William of Walworth]

Nice one elbows

Yes, spot on -- I was also quite mystified earlier about these references to an erroneous BBC story ....

 

[little_legs]

LOL

 

[elbows]

LOL

Thats an interesting version of history. I'm about to take a break for the rest of the weekend but a couple of things I can add to it:

It wasnt just media and public pressure - it was what other countries started doing at the time that caused a lot of the pressure. For example there was the situation in Ireland where Ireland closed its schools but Northern Irelands were still open at the time. And Macron claimed to have influenced the UK decision, and although I take that claim with a large pinch of salt, it was part of the picture at the time.

It was public pressure in the sense that 'Boris the butcher' started trending during the period where their 'herd immunity' approach was announced, and quickly destroyed.

Was the tail wagging the dog in regards the science and the timing of it? It was certainly of interest that the key Imperial College report came out the Monday after the weekend where the previous strategy was going down in flames. I expect the full reality was a bit messy and complicated, rather than such a simple tale. The influence likely works in both directions, its not a one way street.

 

[2hats]

LOL

Cabinet ministers admit there is no lockdown exit plan as they wait for Boris Johnson's return

One insider said 'there can be no exit strategy until Boris is back in business'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Spoiler: Full article.

Cabinet ministers admit there is no lockdown exit plan as they wait for Boris Johnson's return
One insider said 'there can be no exit strategy until Boris is back in business'

By Gordon Rayner, POLITICAL EDITOR; Camilla Tominey, ASSOCIATE EDITOR ; Anna Mikhailova, DEPUTY POLITICAL EDITOR and Charles Hymas
17 April 2020 • 10:00pm

Ministers have admitted they do not have an agreed strategy for ending the coronavirus lockdown as they wait for Boris Johnson to return to work and take charge of the policy.
Government sources have told The Daily Telegraph that the exit strategy is still at the “modelling” stage and there is not a document “sitting on a shelf ” waiting to be put into action. One insider said there was “no exit plan at the moment because ... there can be no exit strategy until Boris is back in business”. Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, said scientists would review the evidence at the end of the month, meaning it will be a fortnight before there is “clarity” on the way forward. Alok Sharma, the Business Secretary, warned the public to get used to a “new normal” for the foreseeable future because Britain would not go back to “the way we were” even when restrictions begin to be eased. It came as Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s First Minister, said it was time to treat the public like “grown ups” by keeping them informed of the latest thinking on the strategy. The UK death toll has risen to 14,576 following the announcement of 847 deaths on Friday.

Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, said he expected deaths to “continue at a plateau for a little while, and then to come down slowly after that”. While Dominic Raab, who is standing in for Mr Johnson, has set out five tests that must be met before any of the restrictions can be lifted, there is no agreement about how a gradual easing of the lockdown would happen. One Cabinet minister said: “The real decisions are being made in No10 – and that’s where it gets so difficult in the absence of the Prime Minister, because who has the authority to make those decisions? The truth is they can’t be made until he comes back.” The minister said Mr Raab’s five point plan “basically allows the Government to do what it wants to do when it wants to do it – to only announce an exit strategy when we are ready”. The Prime Minister’s spokesman said it was “just wrong” to suggest that the Cabinet was delaying decisions on the lockdown until Mr Johnson returned to work, insisting that “work is taking place across Whitehall” to decide what to do next. Mr Johnson spoke to Dominic Raab on Thursday but is not doing any Government work and is “focused on his recovery”, Downing Street said. Another Cabinet source said: “We don’t have a strategy sitting on the shelf, we need to have a lot of internal discussions first. A lot of it will have to come from the scientists. The plan will be affected by what happens in the coming weeks in countries that are lifting lockdown measures.”

A third Cabinet source said: “There’s no exit plan at the moment because they don’t want to do anything without the boss’s say so. “Not a huge amount is going on in these Cabinet meetings.” The source added: “They are waiting for the public to change their minds. “We didn’t want to go down this route in the first place – public and media pressure pushed the lockdown, we went with the science. “The lockdown will only start coming loose when the public wants it to – not ministers.” Advice given to the Cabinet by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) would be pivotal, according to another Cabinet insider, who said this was expected at the end of the month. “The belief is that the key decisions on any exit strategy will be taken by the PM, his No 10 team and Sage,” the source added. Mr Shapps hinted at the current impasse by saying there would be “a review by the scientists at the end of this month … We’ll be in a position to provide greater clarity”. Ms Sturgeon said she would set out over the next week how the Scottish government would ease the restrictions, “so that we are treating the public like the grown-ups that they are”. Asked if the Government was treating the public like children, a Downing Street spokesman said: “We have set out our five tests but we are at a critical point and we want people to remain focused on that core message of the need to stay at home.”

 

[littlebabyjesus]

ffs this fucking 'the boss' thing again.

Pathetic at every conceivable level if there is any truth in it at all.

 

[2hats]

'the boss'

Likely an autocorrect of 'the bozo'.

 

[weltweit]

PHE could be recruiting and training an army of contact tracers to go into action as restrictions are eased, aligned with expanded testing to test in the community on demand. These measures to continue downward pressure on the virus as people are permitted more freedom.

Once restrictions are eased there will still be small amounts of infections (probably) and these should be aggressively contact traced and contacts tested and isolated. This is what we should have been continuing with from the start and is the only way (bar a vaccine) to keep on top of our own national epidemic.

No mention of this from government sources at the moment though, no mention of relaxation of measures either as government spokespeople focus only on repeating the current mantra of stay at home protect the NHS and save lives.

 

[treelover]

Pretty much as suspected, it's all about protecting capital and fuck the ordinary people:

damning, i wonder if anyone can distill what he said, so all people can see what he was upto.

 

[little_legs]

Thats an interesting version of history. I'm about to take a break for the rest of the weekend but a couple of things I can add to it:

It wasnt just media and public pressure - it was what other countries started doing at the time that caused a lot of the pressure. For example there was the situation in Ireland where Ireland closed its schools but Northern Irelands were still open at the time. And Macron claimed to have influenced the UK decision, and although I take that claim with a large pinch of salt, it was part of the picture at the time.

It was pubic pressure in the sense that 'Boris the butcher' started trending during the period where their 'herd immunity' approach was announced, and quickly destroyed.

Was the tail wagging the dog in regards the science and the timing of it? It was certainly of interest that the key Imperial College report came out the Monday after the weekend where the previous strategy was going down in flames. I expect the full reality was a bit messy and complicated, rather than such a simple tale. The influence likely works in both directions, its not a one way street.

The point here, I believe, is that every action they took was reactionary, and that neither the press nor the opposition are interested in challenging govt's inaction.

 

[zahir]

 

[little_legs]

Cabinet ministers admit there is no lockdown exit plan as they wait for Boris Johnson's return

One insider said 'there can be no exit strategy until Boris is back in business'

www.telegraph.co.uk

Spoiler: Full article.

Cabinet ministers admit there is no lockdown exit plan as they wait for Boris Johnson's return
One insider said 'there can be no exit strategy until Boris is back in business'

By Gordon Rayner, POLITICAL EDITOR; Camilla Tominey, ASSOCIATE EDITOR ; Anna Mikhailova, DEPUTY POLITICAL EDITOR and Charles Hymas
17 April 2020 • 10:00pm

Ministers have admitted they do not have an agreed strategy for ending the coronavirus lockdown as they wait for Boris Johnson to return to work and take charge of the policy.
Government sources have told The Daily Telegraph that the exit strategy is still at the “modelling” stage and there is not a document “sitting on a shelf ” waiting to be put into action. One insider said there was “no exit plan at the moment because ... there can be no exit strategy until Boris is back in business”. Grant Shapps, the Transport Secretary, said scientists would review the evidence at the end of the month, meaning it will be a fortnight before there is “clarity” on the way forward. Alok Sharma, the Business Secretary, warned the public to get used to a “new normal” for the foreseeable future because Britain would not go back to “the way we were” even when restrictions begin to be eased. It came as Nicola Sturgeon, Scotland’s First Minister, said it was time to treat the public like “grown ups” by keeping them informed of the latest thinking on the strategy. The UK death toll has risen to 14,576 following the announcement of 847 deaths on Friday.

Sir Patrick Vallance, the chief scientific adviser, said he expected deaths to “continue at a plateau for a little while, and then to come down slowly after that”. While Dominic Raab, who is standing in for Mr Johnson, has set out five tests that must be met before any of the restrictions can be lifted, there is no agreement about how a gradual easing of the lockdown would happen. One Cabinet minister said: “The real decisions are being made in No10 – and that’s where it gets so difficult in the absence of the Prime Minister, because who has the authority to make those decisions? The truth is they can’t be made until he comes back.” The minister said Mr Raab’s five point plan “basically allows the Government to do what it wants to do when it wants to do it – to only announce an exit strategy when we are ready”. The Prime Minister’s spokesman said it was “just wrong” to suggest that the Cabinet was delaying decisions on the lockdown until Mr Johnson returned to work, insisting that “work is taking place across Whitehall” to decide what to do next. Mr Johnson spoke to Dominic Raab on Thursday but is not doing any Government work and is “focused on his recovery”, Downing Street said. Another Cabinet source said: “We don’t have a strategy sitting on the shelf, we need to have a lot of internal discussions first. A lot of it will have to come from the scientists. The plan will be affected by what happens in the coming weeks in countries that are lifting lockdown measures.”

A third Cabinet source said: “There’s no exit plan at the moment because they don’t want to do anything without the boss’s say so. “Not a huge amount is going on in these Cabinet meetings.” The source added: “They are waiting for the public to change their minds. “We didn’t want to go down this route in the first place – public and media pressure pushed the lockdown, we went with the science. “The lockdown will only start coming loose when the public wants it to – not ministers.” Advice given to the Cabinet by the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) would be pivotal, according to another Cabinet insider, who said this was expected at the end of the month. “The belief is that the key decisions on any exit strategy will be taken by the PM, his No 10 team and Sage,” the source added. Mr Shapps hinted at the current impasse by saying there would be “a review by the scientists at the end of this month … We’ll be in a position to provide greater clarity”. Ms Sturgeon said she would set out over the next week how the Scottish government would ease the restrictions, “so that we are treating the public like the grown-ups that they are”. Asked if the Government was treating the public like children, a Downing Street spokesman said: “We have set out our five tests but we are at a critical point and we want people to remain focused on that core message of the need to stay at home.”

'we went with the science' -> behavioural science

 

[elbows]

The nudge, nudge, wink, wink unit.

 

[ricbake]

Domonic Minghella's blog on suffering Corona Virus -
1 April 2020 Archives

His subsequent blog slates the quality of the tests...

There does seem to be a huge problem with false negative tests

 

[ricbake]

What coronavirus tests does the world need to track the pandemic? | Free to read

Chinese companies predominate in race to ramp up production of two different Covid-19 diagnostics

www.ft.com

How reliable are the tests?
The PCR test is extremely accurate when carried out carefully by experienced technicians in a well-equipped lab. Because it specifically detects genes found only in the Sars-CoV-2 virus, it will produce very few false positives, said Andrew Preston, reader in microbial pathogenesis at the University of Bath.
False negatives — which indicate wrongly that someone is clear of infection — are more of a problem. They often result from problems with collecting and processing patient samples. For other viruses, false negative rates of 10 per cent are widely accepted and they can reach as high as 30 per cent. Therefore PCR tests “have more often been used to confirm an infection rather than give someone the all clear”, said Dr Gill at Warwick Medical School

 

[Treacle Toes]

888 deaths since yesterday.