Coronavirus in the UK - news, lockdown and discussion
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Royal Mail has removed the exemption of Covid sick leave from staff absence records and local managers are phoning staff absent with Covid to see if they will come into work. My office currently at somewhere near 25% off sick.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
elbows
Well-Known Member
Certainly as a result of the changed deaths picture nobody here is claiming that the threat these days is the same as the threat in the pre-vaccine era. That doesnt mean everyone is going to be comfortable with the current infection situation or all of the policies and attitudes.
Its understandable that some people arent happy about the number of infected people, or are concerned that attitudes have moved too far in the other direction. I suppose my own greatest fears involve the future, eg if there are problems with future variants. Or if further boosters turn out to be very necessary to maintain lower levels of hospitalisation and death, but changed attitudes and mood music hamper attempts to get enough people in older & vulnerable groups getting those boosters at the right time.
I'm certainly not expecting or asking people to treat the threat in the same way as they did in the first two waves. I'm still going to go on about this virus even at times when the threat is not so acute. Keep in mind that I'd be going absolutely nuts and shouting a lot if the current policies were attempted when the hospitalisation and death risk was high. Its all relative, my attitude these days is mild compared to what it was in the first 12-18 months. But I dont like the pressure this virus continues to place on health services, its still fucking up other kinds of care.
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elbows
Well-Known Member
Thanks very much. Its been good for my mental health to receive such appreciation, and I received more from people here than I ever anticipated. I do get a bit embarrassed about it though, and I'm glad we've moved into an era when my pandemic thoughts are less useful.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
This is nasty of them but it also seems extraordinarily stupid of them. They are aware it's a fairly contagious virus? And that if their other staff get it a lot of them will have to take sick days too?
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
Got a text today offering my non CEV 8 year old a COVID jab. Even though we’ve all had it recently, it’s probably worth doing as we have CEV people in the wider family. Would be good to get both kids done at once though.
Pretty efficient considering it was only opened up to her group yesterday
Pretty efficient considering it was only opened up to her group yesterday
sheothebudworths
Up the bum - no babies!!!
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Sounds a stretch, but could this possibly be someone misunderstanding changing advice on LFT tests being ok for recycling?
P.S. Could you please post the twit/twat whatever you call them?
prunus
Tick tock.
I can confirm this (that schools have been told by the govt to dispose of (actually I think return) any LFTs they have left and not under any circumstances to hand them out to staff.)
It’s almost as if they want us all to get it. Oh.
I despise this shower of cunts more than I have any other Tory govt, and I grew up under thatcher.
Chilli.s
mingling jets and statuettes
It is certainly a close call as to who wins in the tory cuntyness race, I think this lot have it due to the death toll as well as the blatant corruption
StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
I "think" I still have a small stash of LFTs left at work, from the last time we had a close contact notification and tested everybody "officially" for the required number of times. Several of the team still test at least twice weekly as their OHs are in working in care / medical / education settings and the odd few unused tests have arrived to top up the workshop supply. I suspect that the stash will disappear, unless I get the projects co-ordinator to put them to one side in secure storage.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Since the end of free testing for most people means a return to guesswork, they finally expanded the list of symptoms! They've included the non-covid-specific symptoms, of which there are many. They probably figure they should do this now because they cant actually have everyone go back to the old attitudes just yet, and if staffing is an issue there are other ways to discourage those with any of these symptoms from staying off work. And because the extremely high prevalence of covid means people are more likely to have covid than another respiratory infection at the moment, the guesswork is currently a reasonable guide. Should a time come when another respiratory disease becomes the most likely candidate, they may feel the need to fiddle around with their emphasis for economic reasons.
www.gov.uk
Children are only advised to stay away from educational settings if they have a high temperature:
Covid: Nine new symptoms added to official list
Sore throats, headaches and loss of appetite are now all officially recognised as signs of infection.
www.bbc.co.uk
People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19
Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.
Children are only advised to stay away from educational settings if they have a high temperature:
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StoneRoad
heckling from the back!
Call me cynical ... but I don't think using guesswork [reduced testing vs more 'official' symptoms] and a serious reduction in the dashboard / BBC interpretation statistics actually helps anyone. Other than bullying managers who see only the "bottom line" and not the human costs of being ill [not just with covid].
e2a - Especially with the BA.2 version of Omicron having such dominance in new cases.
e2a - Especially with the BA.2 version of Omicron having such dominance in new cases.
elbows
Well-Known Member
It helps the sort of cold calculations this country specialises in, and helps maintain the normalisation agenda, an agenda that the media have gone along with.
Such cold calculations can easily end up being counterproductive, with unintended consequences blowing up in their face. Thats often the case with such crude calculations, but never seems to be enough to change establishment instincts here. Ways it could blow up in their face include the economic implications of long term health consequences, or peoples confidence to return to normal being undermined, or encouraging a new variant that fucks things up in future, or being so successful at reducing peoples perceptions of the threat that not enough people get the next booster, piling pressure on the NHS further down the line. Those and other risks have not been enough to stop the short term thinking, the high stakes gamblers, and the usual sort of political calculations.
Its sadly no surprise. They liked to take these chances even in the pre-vaccine era, when there was little prospect of getting away with it for more than a few months at a time. Now there is a much greater chance of getting away with it in a manner that can be sustained, so they will push as hard and fast as they can. Especially because plenty of people were sick of it all and had the expectation that it should be all over by now. And they dont want to indulge those who would rather proceed more slowly and cautiously, they want to drag people along and can live with some people grumbling along the way. For political reasons they much prefer to have people grumbling that we are moving too quickly than people and businesses shouting that we are moving too slowly. Even if it all blows up later, they will probably still think it was worth it, pointing to the months of relative normality that were achieved for a time. Never mind that things are still far from normal, especially when it comes to disruption due to staff shortages, and pressure on the NHS which still shows up not just via waiting lists and treatment delays, but also long ambulance response times for medical emergencies.
Such cold calculations can easily end up being counterproductive, with unintended consequences blowing up in their face. Thats often the case with such crude calculations, but never seems to be enough to change establishment instincts here. Ways it could blow up in their face include the economic implications of long term health consequences, or peoples confidence to return to normal being undermined, or encouraging a new variant that fucks things up in future, or being so successful at reducing peoples perceptions of the threat that not enough people get the next booster, piling pressure on the NHS further down the line. Those and other risks have not been enough to stop the short term thinking, the high stakes gamblers, and the usual sort of political calculations.
Its sadly no surprise. They liked to take these chances even in the pre-vaccine era, when there was little prospect of getting away with it for more than a few months at a time. Now there is a much greater chance of getting away with it in a manner that can be sustained, so they will push as hard and fast as they can. Especially because plenty of people were sick of it all and had the expectation that it should be all over by now. And they dont want to indulge those who would rather proceed more slowly and cautiously, they want to drag people along and can live with some people grumbling along the way. For political reasons they much prefer to have people grumbling that we are moving too quickly than people and businesses shouting that we are moving too slowly. Even if it all blows up later, they will probably still think it was worth it, pointing to the months of relative normality that were achieved for a time. Never mind that things are still far from normal, especially when it comes to disruption due to staff shortages, and pressure on the NHS which still shows up not just via waiting lists and treatment delays, but also long ambulance response times for medical emergencies.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Yeah, saw this today, and it makes so clear that they didn't keep the symptoms list short out of inertia or to not confuse people or anything. It was literally to restrict access to tests. And I remember telling people last year that the NHS symptoms list was wrong (in being much too short) and some of them looked at me like I was paranoid. These people running the country are real fucking arseholes.Since the end of free testing for most people means a return to guesswork, they finally expanded the list of symptoms! They've included the non-covid-specific symptoms, of which there are many. They probably figure they should do this now because they cant actually have everyone go back to the old attitudes just yet, and if staffing is an issue there are other ways to discourage those with any of these symptoms from staying off work. And because the extremely high prevalence of covid means people are more likely to have covid than another respiratory infection at the moment, the guesswork is currently a reasonable guide. Should a time come when another respiratory disease becomes the most likely candidate, they may feel the need to fiddle around with their emphasis for economic reasons.
Covid: Nine new symptoms added to official list
Sore throats, headaches and loss of appetite are now all officially recognised as signs of infection.www.bbc.co.uk
People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19
Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.
Children are only advised to stay away from educational settings if they have a high temperature:
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it was to limit demand for PCR tests. Later on they were able to fill a big part of that gap between supply and demand by using lateral flow tests, which is why the rules were kept different in terms of symptoms and which sort of test people should seek.
To be fair it would have been very hard to scale up PCR testing to really be able to meet maximum demand, and at least the media etc meant that people were at least aware for a long time of how much broader the actual symptoms of covid are. I suppose my preference for how supply and demand could have been balanced in regards PCR tests would have been to do more things at the right time to keep the number of people with covid much lower in the first place when a wave arrived, thats a nice way to reduce demand.
To be fair it would have been very hard to scale up PCR testing to really be able to meet maximum demand, and at least the media etc meant that people were at least aware for a long time of how much broader the actual symptoms of covid are. I suppose my preference for how supply and demand could have been balanced in regards PCR tests would have been to do more things at the right time to keep the number of people with covid much lower in the first place when a wave arrived, thats a nice way to reduce demand.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Unfortunately many people weren't aware of the broader list of symptoms, in my experience. I had multiple conversations with people who were sure they had colds because they just had a sniffle and a sore throat. Mostly I was trying to persuade them that they should get a test, and they might have to lie about symptoms on the NHS website.
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and lateral flow test availability did eventually help with that phenomenon by making it easier for people not to guess and presume, or to have to jump through hoops and lie about symptoms, but to get a lateral flow test. Even then, I see people reading too much into negative results, assuming they didnt have covid when actually they still might have done. People are keen to avoid uncertainty, they want to reach a conclusion, but the wrong conclusions are drawn quite often.
I'm not a fan of guesswork and unfortunately I'm well aware pre-pandemic of the sorts of assumptions people make, and how they have trouble getting their heads around the broad, overlapping symptoms that many diseases all feature, and the broad spectrum of symptom severity that the very same virus can cause in different people. Most famously this always shows up with incorrect attitudes to do with influenza - its very common for people to only appreciate they've had 'proper flu' if they get the very worst symptoms that keep them in bed for days. As soon as anything that falls short of that level of symptoms features, people end up making mistakes, promoting misconceptions by going on about 'man flu' etc etc. In reality just like covid, many cases of influenza can be asymptomatic, or very mild.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
The fact that you don't understand how clever it is to phone sick people and tell them to not be sick any more is exactly why you're not management material.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Not heard anything like this but we don't have any LFT's anyway. We've had none delivered since January. Teachers with a few leftover boxes squirreled away were told weeks ago to hand them over.
I've got a few spare boxes at home but as I don't get paid at all for time off sick and as we will go hungry if I lose a week's pay I've only been doing one a fortnight.
Cloo
Banana for scale
Haved booked son in for jab in a fortnight - pretty much exactly 12 weeks after he recovered from his bout earlier this year.
Now got three close work colleagues with COVID - I mean close as it team structure, not physically, in fact they're all in totally different parts of the country.
Now got three close work colleagues with COVID - I mean close as it team structure, not physically, in fact they're all in totally different parts of the country.
blameless77
Well-Known Member
Since the end of free testing for most people means a return to guesswork, they finally expanded the list of symptoms! They've included the non-covid-specific symptoms, of which there are many. They probably figure they should do this now because they cant actually have everyone go back to the old attitudes just yet, and if staffing is an issue there are other ways to discourage those with any of these symptoms from staying off work. And because the extremely high prevalence of covid means people are more likely to have covid than another respiratory infection at the moment, the guesswork is currently a reasonable guide. Should a time come when another respiratory disease becomes the most likely candidate, they may feel the need to fiddle around with their emphasis for economic reasons.
Covid: Nine new symptoms added to official list
Sore throats, headaches and loss of appetite are now all officially recognised as signs of infection.www.bbc.co.uk
People with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19
Guidance for people with symptoms of a respiratory infection including COVID-19, or a positive test result for COVID-19.
Children are only advised to stay away from educational settings if they have a high temperature:
Also they can afford to finally expand the list as it won’t result in a spike in demand as eligibility is so limited now...
elbows
Well-Known Member
Yeah I forgot to state that clearly and explicitly in my first post on this subject. Accidentally taking it as a given that people understood how testing demand was suppressed to varying extents during the pandemic so far, in response to variations in potential demand, available supplies and types of testing available to the masses. These points came up a bit more directly in later posts.
If I recall properly, the way that the testing system quickly and visibly started to buckle under demand was the most obvious initial sign that the second wave was really getting going in the UK, circa early September 2020.
wemakeyousoundb
hopefully not gimboid
Just tried this but answered truthfully as I contract for them rather than work for them and got a negative result.Just managed to order a 7 pack of testing kits off the NHS site.
Will try again with a different answer on another day.
Got a small stock for now.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Well I have to go to the surgery for blood tests & the hospital for a scan so assume I need to test before attending.
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
Just when I thought they couldnt sink any lower, I dont know what to say.
Please defy this instruction and hand them out, these arseholes need standing up to
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