Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[two sheds]

They might respond to unreasonable arguments like back me or you're sacked.

= headline in the papers "Stalinist Corbyn purges sensible moderates because he can't tolerate debate"

You've no idea about this press and pr malarky I'm afraid.

 

[killer b]

Lol yeah, just poll 60% and you're laughing. No problem hitting that, dunno why he makes it look so difficult.

 

[tim]

Exactly. Hopefully the marginalisation of the PLP by Corbyn and McDonnell will mean it happens before the election and we can salvage something. Just takes the sensible MPs to have some balls.

Let's hope they don't and that we can deselect the reactionaries without a fuss when the boundary changes happen.

 

[youngian]

Ooooh interesting - could you give an example of how Corbyn could do this?

Getting a suit and doing your tie up would be a start. Plenty of politicians are scruffy but if you're serious about power you get an image consultant to do all this nonsense for you and then people will pay attention to what's important; your message. Secondly, a leader is not there to think in times of crisis but provide certainty and reassurance. So don't um and aar weighing up pros and cons when you are asked if you'd shoot an armed terrorist in the street. Don't make yourself the story by mumbling the national anthem or going off on CND marches and grabbing headlines off important national party launches. If you need to repudiate your past indiscretions to talk about the future, than do it. Don't waste political capital in opposition fighting battles you can't win like Trident renewal. Leadership is about perception and what people think you are. I wouldn't write any of this about John McDonnell or Gerry Adams because they get all this basic stuff. And good leaders hire people cleverer than they are to sort all this stuff out. But man-of-destiny Jeremy knows better.

 

[youngian]

Lol yeah, just poll 60% and you're laughing. No problem hitting that, dunno why he makes it look so difficult.

Trailing this shitty government by 7% is a pretty tricky task but Corbyn's managed it.

= headline in the papers "Stalinist Corbyn purges sensible moderates because he can't tolerate debate"

You've no idea about this press and pr malarky I'm afraid.

Nothing wrong with bitter opponents comparing you to Stalin, the public like to know who's in charge. And if you're 15 per cent ahead in the polls you won't be getting much disloyalty. Although sack the odd person anyway for being rubbish just to consolidate your leadership.

There's plenty of people in the big tent SNP that think Salmond is too centrist and free market and others concerned about Sturgeon dragging the party too far to the left. But they're both winners and can command loyalty.

 

[two sheds]

Fair points in your previous post and I'll respond, but just to remark:

Nothing wrong with bitter opponents comparing you to Stalin, the public like to know who's in charge.

Well yes but in this case the bitter opponents are journalists who people could reasonably expect to be giving a balanced opinion. I'm not sure the public would be confident about a politician who's repeatedly compared to someone who's killed 20 million people. Cue repeated stories about gulags, communism, totalitarianism, .... front page stories on chewing a bacon sarnie nothing.

You can't win because the journos are making the rules and you can't win a game against someone who's making the rules.

 

[redsquirrel]

As Jeremy is none of those things he won't mind taking a bullet for his party. The latest all-poll average shows the Tories 7.4% ahead of Labour. In March 2011, Labour led by 5.9% under the triumphant leadership of Ed Miliband.

Are those polling figures using the same methodology? I don't think so, most companies have revised their methodology following the GE. So any direct comparison is rubbish.

That said, Labour probably are polling "worse" now that in 2011, but so what? Polling well in 2011 didn't help them win the GE. Even if you reduce the entire point of the party to winning elections there's a not going to be another GE for four years. Scotland looks dire, but both London and Wales look reasonably positive for Labour.

 

[two sheds]

Getting a suit and doing your tie up would be a start. Plenty of politicians are scruffy but if you're serious about power you get an image consultant to do all this nonsense for you and then people will pay attention to what's important; your message.

Repeated messages from the Sun et al = "Corbyn pretends to be human" "Corbyn betrays his beliefs" "Corbyn descends into the mire of spin ....

Secondly, a leader is not there to think in times of crisis but provide certainty and reassurance. So don't um and aar weighing up pros and cons when you are asked if you'd shoot an armed terrorist in the street.

Media message = "Hypocrite Corbyn would have shot Menezes"

Don't make yourself the story by mumbling the national anthem or going off on CND marches and grabbing headlines off important national party launches. If you need to repudiate your past indiscretions to talk about the future, than do it. Don't waste political capital in opposition fighting battles you can't win like Trident renewal. Leadership is about perception and what people think you are. I wouldn't write any of this about John McDonnell or Gerry Adams because they get all this basic stuff. And good leaders hire people cleverer than they are to sort all this stuff out. But man-of-destiny Jeremy knows better.

Cue headlines of dishonesty, weakness, pretending to give up his beliefs so that he can dishonestly grab power.

Again, I see what you're saying but if Murdoch et al decide they're going for him there's bugger all he can do aside from adopting the tory policies that the papers love. And then we'd be back into accusations of dishonesty. He seems to have decided to try to be honest about what he believes and not hide it.

It doesn't look like he has a hope of being elected, but I don't think he would be if he did all the things you've suggested either. There would always be a bacon sarnie photo equivalent that would appear on the front page of the Sun on election day morning headlined "will the last person to leave Britain please turn out the lights".

It was the Sun wot won it, remember.

 

[killer b]

if you're 15 per cent ahead in the polls

where are you getting these imaginary figures from? it was 60% a minute ago - how might these fantastical leads be achieved? When were they last managed by any party?

 

[youngian]

Are those polling figures using the same methodology? I don't think so, most companies have revised their methodology following the GE. So any direct comparison is rubbish.

You forgot to mention that polls are all run by Tories and are all lies and propaganda. In which case Labour members can only go by anecdotal evidence from the doorsteps, family, friends and acquaintances. And it's not looking good for Corbyn; 'nice guy but clearly not a leader' would be the least negative feedback you'll get. And few people believe Jezza's going to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Anyway, the coming May elections will show how much progress Corbyn has made.

 

[youngian]

where are you getting these imaginary figures from? it was 60% a minute ago - how might these fantastical leads be achieved? When were they last managed by any party?

60% is the SNP figure but opposition leaders heading for a small majority will have achieved a substantial lead at some point in opposition (15 per cent was illustrative to make a simple point about leadership even simpler). Any leader that manages to plummet an opposition's ratings and expects party unity is a wishful thinker. Anyway, wait for the May election results and take it from there.

 

[killer b]

I've not noticed any plummeting - when did that happen?

 

[newbie]

Anyway, the coming May elections will show how much progress Corbyn has made.

Really? what metric will you use to determine the Corbyn effect? Which of the clutch of local, regional and crime commissioner elections will revolve around him?

 

[butchersapron]

60% is the SNP figure but opposition leaders heading for a small majority will have achieved a substantial lead at some point in opposition (15 per cent was illustrative to make a simple point about leadership even simpler). Any leader that manages to plummet an opposition's ratings and expects party unity is a wishful thinker. Anyway, wait for the May election results and take it from there.

You're doing the opposite of that oh wise old man.

 

[youngian]

You're doing the opposite of that oh wise old man.

I am but look at the humble pie I'll have to eat when Jeremy delivers landslide gains for Labour in the coming May elections.

 

[butchersapron]

If there's one thing worse than the 3 quiders who've done nothing post election, it's the look I gave him a go but... lot.

 

[killer b]

Who's arguing for landslide gains? What are you imagining posters are saying here?

 

[butchersapron]

I am but look at the humble pie I'll have to eat when Jeremy delivers landslide gains for Labour in the coming May elections.

No you're not. Don't tell people that the future you're building, the future that you're trying to ensure takes place may just be inevitable.

 

[youngian]

Again, I see what you're saying but if Murdoch et al decide they're going for him there's bugger all he can do aside from adopting the tory policies that the papers love. And then we'd be back into accusations of dishonesty. He seems to have decided to try to be honest about what he believes and not hide it.

I don't have any moral qualms about lying to Murdoch. Even good mate Tony Blair was fucking his wife behind his back. And there is always the Tom Watson and Max Mosley approach; pull a gun when Murdoch reaches for a knife. Or you can sit and winge in impotent rage. Anyway the press are paper tigers with falling circulation and influence.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't have any moral qualms about lying to Murdoch. Even good mate Tony Blair was fucking his wife behind his back. And there is always the Tom Watson and Max Mosley approach; pull a gun when Murdoch reaches for a knife. Or you can sit and winge in impotent rage. Anyway the press are paper tigers with falling circulation and influence.

What is this waffly gossip? Why is it on this thread?

 

[youngian]

If there's one thing worse than the 3 quiders who've done nothing post election, it's the look I gave him a go but... lot.

That's me, I gave Jez a punt as his opponents had to go, I like the man and his policy direction. But it doesn't matter if you're shadow minister of cauliflowers or the leader, if you can't do the job then clear your desk. The party comes first not leadership cults.

 

[youngian]

What is this waffly gossip? Why is it on this thread?

Perhaps it is, how sad that people are putting out scurrilous tittle-tattle about poor Mr Murdoch, What's he ever done to deserve that?

 

[butchersapron]

That's me, I gave Jez a punt as his opponents had to go, I like the man and his policy direction. But it doesn't matter if you're shadow minister of cauliflowers or the leader, if you can't do the job then clear your desk. The party comes first not leadership cults.

The two elections he's faced he's won with massive majorities. Odd that. Demand your money back as there's clearly a vastly popular leader you know about that no one else had noticed. Labour not leading in the polls is obviously an individual problem.

 

[Lord Camomile]

it doesn't matter if you're shadow minister of cauliflowers

I think it does matter if you're shadow minister of cauliflowers, that really shouldn't be a position in any serious political party

 

[youngian]

I think it does matter if you're shadow minister of cauliflowers, that really shouldn't be a position in any serious political party

I think that's attributable to Chirac, it's the French version of Minister for Paper-clips or the Milk-monitor.

 

[Brainaddict]

Getting a suit and doing your tie up would be a start. Plenty of politicians are scruffy but if you're serious about power you get an image consultant to do all this nonsense for you and then people will pay attention to what's important; your message. Secondly, a leader is not there to think in times of crisis but provide certainty and reassurance. So don't um and aar weighing up pros and cons when you are asked if you'd shoot an armed terrorist in the street. Don't make yourself the story by mumbling the national anthem or going off on CND marches and grabbing headlines off important national party launches. If you need to repudiate your past indiscretions to talk about the future, than do it. Don't waste political capital in opposition fighting battles you can't win like Trident renewal. Leadership is about perception and what people think you are. I wouldn't write any of this about John McDonnell or Gerry Adams because they get all this basic stuff. And good leaders hire people cleverer than they are to sort all this stuff out. But man-of-destiny Jeremy knows better.

Oh my. The degree to which you don't get it is astounding. Do you not think, looking at the primaries across the pond, that there might come a time when people tire of identikit (neoliberal) cunts in suits? Do you not think that across vast swathes of the British public, that might already have happened?

I'm interested to know whether you've come up with these weird, fantastical narratives of yours by yourself, or by talking to other party types who also don't understand even vaguely what is happening (or about to happen) politically in Britain.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh my. The degree to which you don't get it is astounding. Do you not think, looking at the primaries across the pond, that there might come a time when people tire of identikit (neoliberal) cunts in suits? Do you not think that across vast swathes of the British public, that might already have happened?

I'm interested to know whether you've come up with these weird, fantastical narratives of yours by yourself, or by talking to other party types who also don't understand even vaguely what is happening (or about to happen) politically in Britain.

What's about to happen?

 

[Brainaddict]

What's about to happen?

Well, many things, but perhaps a dominant one: increasing inequality, to which this govt is heavily committed, is eroding and will erode further the respectable centre ground that youngian and friends are so eager to claim.

 

[butchersapron]

Well, many things, but perhaps a dominant one: increasing inequality, to which this govt is heavily committed, is eroding and will erode further the respectable centre ground that youngian and friends are so eager to claim.

Oh, how disappointing - i thought you meant a corbyn storm or something. Rather than just the bog standard leftist trope of inevitable left-wing radicalisation. O Brave new world.

 

[redsquirrel]

You forgot to mention that polls are all run by Tories and are all lies and propaganda.

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

What is it on here recently, have people lost the ability of read and respond to what is actually posted.