Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[youngian]

I'm interested to know whether you've come up with these weird, fantastical narratives of yours by yourself, or by talking to other party types who also don't understand even vaguely what is happening (or about to happen) politically in Britain.

The Prince probably and it's still read 500 years later. That's because it doesn't matter if you're Lenin or Donald Trump the basics to the art of leadership don't change.

 

[butchersapron]

The Prince probably and it's still read 500 years later. That's because it doesn't matter if you're Lenin or Donald Trump the basics to the art of leadership don't change.

lesson #1 don't be a leader.

What a weird individualised world you must live in.

 

[Brainaddict]

The Prince probably and it's still read 500 years later. That's because it doesn't matter if you're Lenin or Donald Trump the basics to the art of leadership don't change.

I think you should read some more contemporary sources too. Perhaps about the personal debt crisis that threatens to swallow half of Britain's 'middle class'. Do you think that with their standard of living noticeably falling, if a party offers to get them out of that hole, they will give one solitary fuck whether the lead candidate wears a tie? They will not.

Edited to put inverted commas around 'middle class' - a weird category here, let's not get into it

 

[youngian]

I think you should read some more contemporary sources too. Perhaps about the personal debt crisis that threatens to swallow half of Britain's 'middle class'. Do you think that with their standard of living noticeably falling, if a party offers to get them out of that hole, they will give one solitary fuck whether the lead candidate wears a tie? They will not.

If you can't even manage basic trivial stuff like doing your tie up properly you won't be trusted to tackle the productivity gap. Even a petty villain in the magistrates gets this stuff. And yes its the economy stupid but would that be widely quoted if Al Gore said it and not Slick Willy Clinton?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The Prince probably and it's still read 500 years later. That's because it doesn't matter if you're Lenin or Donald Trump the basics to the art of leadership don't change.

It might arguably deliver for leaders and wanna be leaders...but what about the lead?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Louis MacNeice]

If you can't even manage basic trivial stuff like doing your tie up properly you won't be trusted to tackle the productivity gap. Even a petty villain in the magistrates gets this stuff. And yes its the economy stupid but would that be widely quoted if Al Gore said it and not Slick Willy Clinton?

What is the connection between knotting ties and the 'productivity gap'?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. you might also want to unpack some of the presumptions around the 'productivity gap' itself.

 

[youngian]

What is the connection between knotting ties and the 'productivity gap'?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

p.s. you might also want to unpack some of the presumptions around the 'productivity gap' itself.

If you dress like shit and haven't got the gift of the gab then you're not going to reach act 2; your policies. Because no one trusts your competence to run anything. Is this difficult stuff?

 

[Louis MacNeice]

If you dress like shit and haven't got the gift of the gab then you're not going to reach act 2; your policies. Because no one trusts your competence to run anything. Is this difficult stuff?

Not difficult just stupid; 'dress like shit'...really?

Where is the connection between not wearing a tie, or wearing a badly knotted tie and political and economic competence? You just saying stuff - even with increasing force - doesn't make it true.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[oryx]

And the cufflinks of course. No-one wearing shirts with buttoned sleeves is fit to hold office.

 

[Brainaddict]

tackle the productivity gap.

Oh. I see. You really, really don't get it.

Perhaps have a read of this while muttering 'productivity gap' to yourself: How London’s booming ‘butler class’ takes care of the wealthy elite

I can do nothing more for you.

 

[teqniq]

If you dress like shit and haven't got the gift of the gab then you're not going to reach act 2; your policies. Because no one trusts your competence to run anything. Is this difficult stuff?

Here is a prime example of a complete cunt in a suit and tie. I'd rather have someone casually dressed if, at the very least they are going to provide economic policies that do not directly target the disadvantaged.

George Osborne got rather flustered trying to explain why he's cutting £1.2bn in disability benefits

 

[youngian]

Here is a prime example of a complete cunt in a suit and tie. I'd rather have someone casually dressed if, at the very least they are going to provide economic policies that do not directly target the disadvantaged.

George Osborne got rather flustered trying to explain why he's cutting £1.2bn in disability benefits

Amazing what you can get away with if the public likes the look of you over the person. Because those voters who decide elections were not voting to cut disability benefits. And that is why John McDonnell now dresses like a bank manager.

 

[DotCommunist]

if being a bit scruffy is a bar to election then how come his constituents have been returning him for years on end

 

[youngian]

Not difficult just stupid; 'dress like shit'...really?

Where is the connection between not wearing a tie, or wearing a badly knotted tie and political and economic competence? You just saying stuff - even with increasing force - doesn't make it true.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

There is no connection but Bernie Madoff didn't dress like a retired geography teacher to persuade people to manage their money. It would be lovely to think elections are decided by people crunching the numbers and measuring competing values but they aren't.

 

[two sheds]

There is no connection but Bernie Madoff didn't dress like a retired geography teacher to persuade people to manage their money. It would lovely to think elections are decided on people crunching the numbers but they aren't.

Who would you have instead of Corbyn?

 

[youngian]

Who would you have instead of Corbyn?

I like the look of Clive Lewis, Keir Starmer, Lisa Nandy, Tom Watson. But you never know who emerges in a contest. I didn't expect the last one would reveal that Burnham and Cooper had less leadership ability than a drunken slug. I'll even go for Dan Jarvis if he's up against Johnson and promises to stand stand on; "Vote for Dan because he's shot better men than Boris."

 

[youngian]

if being a bit scruffy is a bar to election then how come his constituents have been returning him for years on end

Because Jeremy is a darn good constituency MP who is highly regarded by even those who disagree with his politics. As is Douglas Carswell but even UKIP don't want him for a leader let alone the Tories. Also, notice that even PMs and ministers dress down when their campaigning in the constituency.

 

[free spirit]

If you dress like shit and haven't got the gift of the gab then you're not going to reach act 2; your policies. Because no one trusts your competence to run anything. Is this difficult stuff?

I tend to instantly distrust cunts in shiny suits, whereas blokes who dress and act like genial teachers / lecturers I would tend to view as being trustworthy until they prove otherwise.

 

[killer b]

The Jarvis strategy is so crude: Dan will appeal to floating voters and stop us haemorrhaging fat povs in help for heroes hoodies to ukip, he can't lose!

Fucking pathetic

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Amazing what you can get away with if the public likes the look of you over the person. Because those voters who decide elections were not voting to cut disability benefits. And that is why John McDonnell now dresses like a bank manager.

You keep on talking about 'the public'. How do you know so much about 'the public'?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Because Jeremy is a darn good constituency MP who is highly regarded by even those who disagree with his politics. As is Douglas Carswell but even UKIP don't want him for a leader let alone the Tories. Also, notice that even PMs and ministers dress down when their campaigning in the constituency.

Ok, that explains the constituency, perhaps. How about the landslide Labour leadership election?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The buck always stops with the leader. If Corbyn hasn't a strategy to outfox the media whose fault's that? And if he can't run his party by keeping his troops in line the public will decide Corbyn can't run anything else.

What a load of bollocks.
The media were on the attack even before he was elected, expecting him to strategise around a media willing to attack him on ANY grounds whatsoever (even having a "foreign" wife, for fuck's sake!) makes a mockery of your blame-laying.
As for "keeping his troops in line", that's kind of difficult when no-marks like Markymarrk and "useful idiots" like yourself lend weight to his opponents - those same opponents whose politics were found so empty as to be scorned by a majority of the LP membership.

 

[ViolentPanda]

They might respond to unreasonable arguments like back me or you're sacked.

Assuming that they're members of the shadow cabinet. If not - and the vast majority are not - then he has no leverage. He can't "sack" people as MPs.

And if you're polling at 60% and almost most certain to form the next administration you will command complete party loyalty. But if you're trailing the Tories by 7% you haven't got much leverage to get the troops in line. This leadership business is not difficult.

So speaks someone who leads from an armchair.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

What a load of bollocks.
The media were on the attack even before he was elected, expecting him to strategise around a media willing to attack him on ANY grounds whatsoever (even having a "foreign" wife, for fuck's sake!) makes a mockery of your blame-laying.
As for "keeping his troops in line", that's kind of difficult when no-marks like Markymarrk and "useful idiots" like yourself lend weight to his opponents - those same opponents whose politics were found so empty as to be scorned by a majority of the LP membership.

Yeah, there's a weird thing going on whereby people are being disloyal then having a go at Corbyn for not keeping people loyal.

Possibly the single biggest thing about Corbyn's approach to leadership has been to insist that it is not all about him, and that disagreement is possible. Clearly some people don't want that - they want to be told what to do.

 

[youngian]

Assuming that they're members of the shadow cabinet. If not - and the vast majority are not - then he has no leverage. He can't "sack" people as MPs.

Which I was and Corbyn has no leverage to sack shadow cabinet members because he hasn't even managed to recruit much of a Praetorian Gaurd to watch his back. Even John McDonnell hasn't been praising Caesar much lately.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The Jarvis strategy is so crude: Dan will appeal to floating voters and stop us haemorrhaging fat povs in help for heroes hoodies to ukip, he can't lose!

Fucking pathetic

In reality, Dan will appeal to the Labour right, and Walter Mittys who pretend to have been Paras, apart from that, he appeals to the media in that Mail-esque "we like to get behind a strong leader" way that so many of them have.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Ok, that explains the constituency, perhaps. How about the landslide Labour leadership election?

It was obviously the membership and the three-quiders having a bubble, innit?

 

[agricola]

Which I was and Corbyn has no leverage to sack shadow cabinet members because he hasn't even managed to recruit much of a Praetorian Gaurd to watch his back. Even John McDonnell hasn't been praising Caesar much lately.

er - the Praetorian Guard killed more Emperors than they saved.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Which I was and Corbyn has no leverage to sack shadow cabinet members because he hasn't even managed to recruit much of a Praetorian Gaurd to watch his back. Even John McDonnell hasn't been praising Caesar much lately.

So you voted for Corbyn and now you think it was a mistake. You've given him what, six months? What did you expect to happen in that period? Given the change in direction he wants to take following the miserable defeat in the election, did you expect your 'public' to suddenly switch? How long would you give him to build something?

Are political leaders to be treated like football managers now? Even football managers shouldn't be treated like football managers.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Which I was and Corbyn has no leverage to sack shadow cabinet members because he hasn't even managed to recruit much of a Praetorian Gaurd to watch his back. Even John McDonnell hasn't been praising Caesar much lately.

Read your history. Those who praise Caesar are usually the ones who try to shiv him.