youngian
Well-Known Member
Not if they have no faith in the person giving the orders they don't. Corbyn's made this leadership all about him and it's not working.
Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He has?
youngian
Well-Known Member
I know but I was trying to state the obvious. I don't why as it hasn't worked so far. I still don't see why the proposition that the public are not seeing Jeremy Corbyn as the next PM is at all controversial.
This article by Blairite Red Tory neo-liberal traitors just tells what any CLP is reporting back Labour ‘not winning back swing voters’ under Jeremy Corbyn
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
What? He has made decision making much more collective than any previous Labour leader of recent times. People have been free to openly dissent; the tragedy is that they have used that to advance causes that are daft.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Corbyn hasn't made it "all about him". His opponents in the PLP have.
Corbyn has made it very clear from the get-go that "it's all about the party", that is the broader membership, and not just the tossers in Parliament, and the tossers in Parliament (and their neoliberal supporters in the media and business) won't tolerate that - re-empowering constituencies to select and to discipline sitting MPs scares the people I've mentioned. MPs because they'd have to toe a local line, rather than a PLP line, business because it's harder to suborn a party structure than a single member, and the media because collective power - and collective responsibility - is anathema to how the proprietors see the world.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
He has?
He hasn't.
youngian
Well-Known Member
It is a tragedy, that's why you act like a leader and read the riot act instead of a chairman of a committee. A good leader works all this stuff out one way or the other. Jeremy hasn't.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
That isn't the way leaders act, especially when they and their enemies know that their Riot Act isn't backed up by anything.
youngian
Well-Known Member
It probably does if their CLP is going to be full of people that seriously believe Jeremy Corbyn is going to be PM. Besides grass roots democracy is banana republic baloney to allow executive demagogues to grab arbitrary power from legislators. I may be advocating decisive leadership but not without checks and balances.Corbyn hasn't made it "all about him". His opponents in the PLP have.
Corbyn has made it very clear from the get-go that "it's all about the party", that is the broader membership, and not just the tossers in Parliament, and the tossers in Parliament (and their neoliberal supporters in the media and business) won't tolerate that - re-empowering constituencies to select and to discipline sitting MPs scares the people I've mentioned.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
You really don't see the contradictions between what you want, and lived reality, do you?
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
Another example of you just saying stuff with no evidence; what has Corbyn (as opposed to other people) done to make it all about him?
It's almost like you want/need this to be true...which is frankly a bit weird.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
fuck me
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
You really have a deep seated mistrust of your own and other people's abilities; no wonder you seem to crave the hand of firm leadership. You're selling yourself and the rest of us short, and in doing so wasting so much potential.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
youngian
Well-Known Member
Corbyn had half a chance with some of Livingstone's canny team but even they're heading for the exit because he doesn't listen to advice. Neale Coleman walks out of Team Corbyn - and Simon Fletcher could be next
Just last week when the party had its referendum launch he would have been advised that the leader on CND march 'snub' would make the headlines if he went. But man-of-destiny Jeremy knows best.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
So no evidence that he's making it all about him, and plenty that others (including yourself in your own small way) are.
Cheers - Louis MacNeice
youngian
Well-Known Member
I believe in European parliamentary representative democracy over executive democracy of the Americas, what's wrong with that?
youngian
Well-Known Member
You're right about the evidence I don't have any 'all about him' pie charts to back me up. And it doesn't matter a shit what I think, it's not going to get anyone elected. If you've invested a lot of emotional faith in Corbyn it's hard to see that not everyone think's he's Robert Redford in the Candidate. Trust me, they don't, he's George McGovern.
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nino_savatte
No pasaran!
You omitted eating a bacon butty properly, which always means you eat it with a knife and fork like a pretentious, anally-retentive cunt.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Casca?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Er, that's the sort of thing 'Desperate' Dan Hodges might say. I don't think he's personalised his leadership at all. That notion resides solely in the foetid minds of his detractors.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Proper left-wing organ, the NS.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
if he'd made it about him we'd have been subjected to endless 'cult of personality' stalinist memes from dickheads in the press and on the internet. But you can see why the drive to claim it is still there, ho-ho he visited the DDR you know
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's done the opposite. It is his opponents who have tried to make it all about him. Perhaps to cover up for their own failings over the past two decades.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
"Parliamentary democracy", as practiced in the UK, is a contradiction in terms. There's nothing even vaguely democratic about a system that limits your say regarding political representation to once every five years nationally, once every four for locals.
As for "executive democracy", what do you think is being exercised here, every time a Parliamentary Instrument or The Parliament Act is used, rather than legislation being voted on?
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
That's pretty much what I said.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So did I, and I dress scruffily! Reason enough to strip me of citizenship and deport me to a prison colony!
Yep. And as a result the conspiracy theorists and Corbynistas blame:
a) the media repeatedly
b) the public, for not agreeing with their "analysis" of capitalism
c) the pollsters, who must be wrong, because Corbyn can't be behind - this denial is the same as those who thought Miliband was doing OK because the Tories, the Tories, etc
Personally, I think almost all the people that are going to vote for Corbyn, have voted for him.
Not Lewis. He's naive to the point of being stupid.
youngian
Well-Known Member
They were wrong at the GE as if that works in Labour's favour. And as these polls appear in Tory newspapers they must be lies from Tory polling companies commissioned by Tory editors
Another good one: a poll of Tory MPs showing that Dan Jarvis is the leader they most fear and Corbyn the least. 'Of course, they would say that' I was told it's a cunning Tory double bluff.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Odd this, given your reliance on polls for your argument. The only two elections thus far, you're a bit quiet on them.
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