Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[Louis MacNeice]

I think the 9million voters who voted for Labour MPs should be considered ahead of those who paid £3.


I mean by the Labour Party for not getting elected.

Someone asked for evidence of non-voters... I've been looking for the stuff I read. Here's one: The non-voter myth

Once again you repeat the lie that it was the £3 members that got Corbyn elected. It was all members apart from the PLP. So by your logic all members (apart from the MPs?) should have less of a say than the general electorate in the election of the party leader (and selection of candidates and policy making?).

It would seem you have two choices:

• either place leadership election solely in the hands of the PLP;
• or open up the process to the general electorate.

Which means excluding the vast bulk of the party membership (as party members) from the leadership elections (and other internal party democratic processes?). You might want to ask yourself what taking either of these of these options would mean for the continued existence of a Labour Party committed to being a 'democratic socialist' party.

Of course there is a third way; you could stop lying.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Re. 'blaming the press' - I mean by the Labour Party for not getting elected.

So let's get this straight the press does influence people when it comes to migration and the EU but not when it's about General Election voting; could you explain how that works?

If not, could you stop posting flatly contradictory nonsense.

Louis MacNeice

 

[nino_savatte]

I object to the constant blaming of the press and the electorate

You don't get it. Moreover, why do you "object to the constant blaming of the press"? Do you think we have a 'free press' that reports events objectively and without bias? How is the electorate being blamed? You're talking out of your arse.

 

[Smangus]

Keep closing your ears to facts in the name of 'Corbyn is getting it right and will win'.
You're wrong, and the Tories know it, hence them saying they'll implement their manifesto in full. A manifesto that was designed as the starting point for negotiations. They're openly laughing and they are implementing something far to the right of what they expected to be able to get away with. Because there is no opposition. The polls are the evidence.

I share your concern that there is not enough of an opposition to this Gvt's terrible manifesto which hits the poorest in society the most and will do for years to come. However if the labour "moderates", "Blairites", etc just accepted the fact that Corbyn is leader and spent as much energy OPPOSING the fucking tories as they do agitating against their party leader the country would be in a better place, and they might just demonstrate to the country they are worthy of the vote in the process. They are not without blame.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Rubbish. Cruddas wants to believe that votes need to come from Tory voters. Nowhere in that report is there an indication as to how this 'research' was conducted.

As predicted.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

I share your concern that there is not enough of an opposition to this Gvt's terrible manifesto which hits the poorest in society the most and will do for years to come. However if the labour "moderates", "Blairites", etc just accepted the fact that Corbyn is leader and spent as much energy OPPOSING the fucking tories as they do agitating against their party leader the country would be in a better place, and they might just demonstrate to the country they are worthy of the vote in the process. They are not without blame.

This is what Miliband's supporters demanded. The moderates did.
They were wrong to do so - to shut up and just mutter their complaints privately - and there were many many of them, and as a result of them falling into line people's lives are being affected as a result. This isn't just a big game.
Meanwhile, if only we were even more left wing is the game in town.

I see the poll is flatly dismissed or ignored. That's confirmation bias. It's not the only piece of evidence I've read, but the only one I could find today.

 

[nino_savatte]

As predicted.

Unlike your predictable tosh, eh? Do you understand anything about research or polling? I don't think you do. You post links to polls as though they are, in themselves, unassailable Truths. You accept them without question. Why? Because they confirm your deeply-held biases.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Unlike your predictable tosh, eh? Do you understand anything about research or polling? I don't think you do. You post links to polls as though they are, in themselves, unassailable Truths. You accept them without question. Why? Because they confirm your deeply-held biases.

I do none of the above.
You, meanwhile, dismiss them because they challenge you.
As I said, it's not the only piece of evidence. Earlier in the thread posters were going on about how there is none. There is plenty. The polls about the perceptions of how left wing leaders are v the outcome of elections are interesting too.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

And you've succeeded in changing the subject from Corbynistas misguided world view. Classic distraction technique.

 

[Smangus]

This isn't just a big game.

O'Rly? Yes you may be right, the seriousness of the situation in this country had completely escaped my notice. Why don't you go and make that point to those arseholes throwing their toys out of the pram. Jonathan Reynolds, Stephen Doughty,Catherine McKinnell et al?

 

[killer b]

Miliband was a 'moderate'. Brown was a moderate. The moderates managed a sweet 4.5% in the leadership election. The moderate's flush is busted.

 

[belboid]

I see the poll is flatly dismissed or ignored. That's confirmation bias. It's not the only piece of evidence I've read, but the only one I could find today.

lol, what about the poll that you said supported your assertion that non-voters are to the right of voters, but actually showed the opposite? Funny how you're now ignoring that. There's a distinct whiff of the hypocrite about you.

 

[nino_savatte]

I do none of the above.
You, meanwhile, dismiss them because they challenge you.
As I said, it's not the only piece of evidence. Earlier in the thread posters were going on about how there is none. There is plenty. The polls about the perceptions of how left wing leaders are v the outcome of elections are interesting too.

You're all over the shop. None of these polls remotely resemble "evidence" and at the risk of repeating myself, all these polls do is confirm your bias. They challenge the sum total of fuck all.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

And you've succeeded in changing the subject from Corbynistas misguided world view. Classic distraction technique.

What about addressing your continued lying re. the £3 members and your 'confusion' over the role of the press; or am I witnessing you very own 'classic distraction technique'?

Come on MarkyMarrk either do this properly or don't bother.

Louis MacNeice

 

[Pickman's model]

Miliband was a 'moderate'. Brown was a moderate. The moderates managed a sweet 4.5% in the leadership election. The moderate's flush is busted.

new toilets all round

 

[nino_savatte]

And you've succeeded in changing the subject from Corbynistas misguided world view. Classic distraction technique.

And this sums you up. This thread isn't about "Corbynistas" and their "misguided world view", it's about the media and the way it reports Corbyn and his shadow cabinet. But I've noticed the way you keep avoiding the points made about media bias. Why is that, I wonder?

 

[gosub]

I do know that this is what moving left has done to us, and the polls appear to continue to be doing.

Being told to calm down in a patronising manner over the Tories being able to act unchecked shows that some just play politics.

when you say unchecked: George Osborne and the slow death of political debate even the torygraph sketch writer thinks the current situation is unhealthy

 

[MarkyMarrk]

You're all over the shop. None of these polls remotely resemble "evidence" and at the risk of repeating myself, all these polls do is confirm your bias.

If they confirm my bias, they're evidence.
Can you show that non-voters are more likely to vote Labour than other parties? Because I've only seen evidence to the contrary. Go on, support your position.
The polls are evidence. One was carried out by the TUC.
It can't be dismissed because you don't agree with it, which is what you're trying. i.e. "you agree with it, so it confirms your position, so it's not evidence".

 

[MarkyMarrk]

On the other hand, though I don't agree with him on fees, focusing on fees and the NHS in PMQs is about as good tactically as he could have done today.

 

[nino_savatte]

If they confirm my bias, they're evidence.

No, that's not how it works and even in saying this, you make yourself look an even bigger fool.

The polls are evidence. One was carried out by the TUC.

Therefore, in your mind, it is the Holy Truth. Fuck off.

It can't be dismissed because you don't agree with it, which is what you're trying. i.e. "you agree with it, so it confirms your position, so it's not evidence".

Catch yourself on. You're really not that clever.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

And this sums you up. This thread isn't about "Corbynistas" and their "misguided world view", it's about the media and the way it reports Corbyn and his shadow cabinet. But I've noticed the way you keep avoiding the points made about media bias. Why is that, I wonder?

I agree there is a media bias. I have confidence in the electorate to know that as well. I also think we have to talk to the electorate where they are, not in this fantasy world where if they don't vote Tory they are left of us. They're patently not.

Do you think they're all sheep?

 

[nino_savatte]

On the other hand, though I don't agree with him on fees, focusing on fees and the NHS in PMQs is about as good tactically as he could have done today.

You use the same kinds of words as Dan Hodges. Are you sure you're not him?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

No, that's not how it works and even in saying this, you make yourself look an even bigger fool.

Therefore, in your mind, it is the Holy Truth. Fuck off.

Catch yourself on. You're really not that clever.

So nothing at all offered again.

 

[Pickman's model]

So nothing at all offered again.

yeh that's what we're all saying about your posts

 

[MarkyMarrk]

You use the same kinds of words as Dan Hodges. Are you sure you're not him?

No. Where has he said this? I follow him on twitter but have only been on a month.
edit: ok, twitter.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Keep closing your ears to facts in the name of 'Corbyn is getting it right and will win'.
.

Corbyn has possibly made Labour winning worth something. That's the point you miss with a lot of us here, certainly me. There is a chance a Labour govt won't just be another version of the Tories. There is a chance voting Labour could mean something again.

 

[nino_savatte]

I agree there is a media bias. I have confidence in the electorate to know that as well. I also think we have to talk to the electorate where they are, not in this fantasy world where if they don't vote Tory they are left of us. They're patently not.

Do you think they're all sheep?

The way in which you use the word 'electorate' is rather odd: you seem to think the 'electorate' agrees with you and your cherry-picked polls.

Answer me this: for all your whining about 'the left', do you favour a one party state in which there are token opposition parties, none of which have anything that could be remotely described as individual identities? I ask that question because you're clearly someone who subscribes to right-wing politics. Franco would have loved you.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

The other thing the moderates are doing badly, in my view, is the minority of moderates whispering about hoping we don't win MoL. This is just nonsense. As I said earlier in the thread, it's frustrating that we're doing the campaigning and the new members don't. They refuse to travel to walk the streets. But we should be campaigning without the whispering and we should want a victory - it makes a difference to Londoners if we win.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Corbyn has possibly made Labour winning worth something. That's the point you miss with a lot of us here, certainly me. There is a chance a Labour govt won't just be another version of the Tories. There is a chance voting Labour could mean something again.

There is no chance of Labour Government with Corbyn.

 

[nino_savatte]

No. Where has he said this? I follow him on twitter but have only been on a month.
edit: ok, twitter.

You follow him on Twitter?