Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media
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I wasn't claiming anything else. Just several people have obviously been through my posts systematically. There would definitely be enough for a CLP member to identify me.
Unlike what half a dozen experts on this thread have claimed.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
so it doesn't matter if you tell us (roughly) how long you've been a Labour Party member for then
Judging from what i've read here (naturally i've systematically done the entirety of your content) you are either Mandelson, Cameron Kinnock, or Georgie Osborn. am i warm??
Yougov poll carried out on 14th and 15th Jan:
Jeremy Corbyn has changed the Labour Party for the... Better: 21% Worse: 45% [No change]: 19%
Some say Corbyn has moved Labour to the left. This is... True and a good thing: 26% True and a bad thing: 42% Untrue: 5%
If Corbyn remains Labour leader, it is (X) that they will win the next election: Likely: 14% Unlikely: 69%
On how well Jeremy Corbyn is doing as Labour Party leader: Well: 24% (-2) Badly: 63% (+3) (via YouGov / 14 - 15 Jan) Changes. from 05 - 06 Jan.
To compare:
To compare: Ed Miliband has changed the Labour Party for the... Better: 16% Worse: 11% [No change]: 56% (via YouGov / 27 - 28 Sep 2011)
Jeremy Corbyn has changed the Labour Party for the... Better: 21% Worse: 45% [No change]: 19%
Some say Corbyn has moved Labour to the left. This is... True and a good thing: 26% True and a bad thing: 42% Untrue: 5%
If Corbyn remains Labour leader, it is (X) that they will win the next election: Likely: 14% Unlikely: 69%
On how well Jeremy Corbyn is doing as Labour Party leader: Well: 24% (-2) Badly: 63% (+3) (via YouGov / 14 - 15 Jan) Changes. from 05 - 06 Jan.
To compare:
To compare: Ed Miliband has changed the Labour Party for the... Better: 16% Worse: 11% [No change]: 56% (via YouGov / 27 - 28 Sep 2011)
This poll makes me angry. We're making no headway despite it:
On how well David Cameron is doing as Prime Minister: Well: 43% (-) Badly: 49% (-2) (via YouGov / 14 - 15 Jan) Chgs. from 05 - 06 Jan.
On how well David Cameron is doing as Prime Minister: Well: 43% (-) Badly: 49% (-2) (via YouGov / 14 - 15 Jan) Chgs. from 05 - 06 Jan.
I don't think the polling figures can be argued with: they are what they are. Why are they what they are though? I'd argue that it isn't because people are overwhelmingly opposed to his politics, but because of a combination of the civil war being fought openly within the (parliamentary) party, and the overwhelmingly negative press he gets from all parts of the media.
Is the correct response to this for him to give in? He isn't acceptable to people with money, so the Labour party should come back with someone they can do business with?
Is the correct response to this for him to give in? He isn't acceptable to people with money, so the Labour party should come back with someone they can do business with?
I object to the constant blaming of the press and the electorate, and not the focus on how inadequate his "leadership" has been thus far, his hypocrisy - he only has principles when it suits him - and his role in the civil war.
The Labour Party is currently a mess. The Corbynistas and Corbyn himself are not blameless, much as they will persuade themselves. They are leading it, and they said they'd unify it. They haven't and it doesn't look like they can.
Someone earlier on wrote a post about how Corbyn will get some things right and it will surprise people who backs him. I agree with that. So get more things right and get more surprised.
It doesn't matter how 'pure' or 'left' policies are when the Tories will win the next election and won't need to even pretend they have to modify anything because we are too mental to attract any of their majority.
And stop defending his disastrous polling with the electorate with "he wins a majority in the Labour Party". That's not getting us power.
I haven't imagined them. It's everywhere, including hugely on this thread.
I just wasn't aiming them at you. I realise it looked like I did because I quoted your post and I should have clarified that it was just the press part that I was replying to you. I then extended my point.
So: apologies.
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There does seem to be some denial regarding his polling here, which is a bit frustrating. But I think it's you that has the negative view of the electorate - you imagine them in some kind of fixed position (a position shared - conveniently - with the right wing of the party), and it's for Corbyn to change his policies to better fit them, than for him to attempt to make the case and talk people round.
Of course the leadership isn't faultless - how could it be? Until 6 months ago they never dreamed for a second that something like this could happen. They're having to learn a huge amount, on the fly, under microscopic scrutiny and with a large section of the PLP actively working against them.
Of course the leadership isn't faultless - how could it be? Until 6 months ago they never dreamed for a second that something like this could happen. They're having to learn a huge amount, on the fly, under microscopic scrutiny and with a large section of the PLP actively working against them.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Systematically
It's talk a very large majority round from a position they've never held. I could handle a 'make the case on trident', but it's everything.
Do you know anyone who voted Tory who will vote Labour because of Corbyn? Do you think such a person exists?
The denial in real life is because there's a myth that non-voters are overwhelmingly left wing. This aligns with a second myth that somehow being left wing gets the voters out. There's a study to show that, if anything, non-voters are less likely to vote Labour. I will see if I can dig it up.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
It'll be just fine. The High Sparrow only needs to win about 100 seats from the Conservatives to be PM. Corbyn is fucking thick but I don't think even he believes he will ever be PM. He is just treating his stint as LotO as a footballer's testimonial. The valedictory capstone to a lengthy career spent doing nothing but talking shite to arseholes.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Yes, very few of them, but some. The ones who think that Miliband's halfway house was crap that it would amount to a half-hearted version of the same policy, but can be convinced by an genuine alternative.
Their numbers will be tiny, dwarfed by the 63% of the adult population who voted neither Labour nor tory. Trying to win them is more important., imo. And that is eminently possible. We cranked some figures on another thread, I think it was a quarter of greens, and 15% of the registered non-voters, and there would be a Labour government (albeit propped up by the SNP)
How do you get fifteen percent of nonvoters who agree with you to vote but not the greater proportion who don't?
Complete misunderstanding of psephology there and a dead end strategy.
And you're the first person I've ever met you claims to know Tories who will now vote labour because of Corbyn. At least we've found one that claims it, even if it's not true.
Complete misunderstanding of psephology there and a dead end strategy.
And you're the first person I've ever met you claims to know Tories who will now vote labour because of Corbyn. At least we've found one that claims it, even if it's not true.
Also to mention that in actual fact Corbyn has managed to go the other way.
Turn Labour voters into Tories and turn Labour voters into Lib dems and non voters - and I do know people in each of those categories.
So it currently stands a great deal higher than fifteen percent of mythical non-voters.
I see that fifteen percent includes people who voted lib dem at the last election - IE voted for the existing government.
I give up. Have your pure, put of power Labour Party. Let the Tories do what they want unchallenged. You lot make me sick.
While you play politics, those people a labour government would have helped. Those people that need a labour government and can't play politics, can carry on dying under the Tories. Disgrace.
Turn Labour voters into Tories and turn Labour voters into Lib dems and non voters - and I do know people in each of those categories.
So it currently stands a great deal higher than fifteen percent of mythical non-voters.
I see that fifteen percent includes people who voted lib dem at the last election - IE voted for the existing government.
I give up. Have your pure, put of power Labour Party. Let the Tories do what they want unchallenged. You lot make me sick.
While you play politics, those people a labour government would have helped. Those people that need a labour government and can't play politics, can carry on dying under the Tories. Disgrace.
I don't know if Corbyn could persuade a load of people who voted tory last time to vote Labour in 2020. I do know that many of the people who voted Tory last time are not ideologically committed tories though - one of the big shifts in the past 30 years or so has been away from tribal voting.
I don't know if that'll happen here - but nor do you. I do know that the electorate rejected a manifesto and potential government drawn from the centre-right of the party in May last year, and I know that the membership of the party - all parts - voted overwhelmingly to try a different approach. Maybe if you lot sucked it up and presented some kind of coherent, unified face to the electorate then it'd be possible to see whether they agree with it.
I don't know if that'll happen here - but nor do you. I do know that the electorate rejected a manifesto and potential government drawn from the centre-right of the party in May last year, and I know that the membership of the party - all parts - voted overwhelmingly to try a different approach. Maybe if you lot sucked it up and presented some kind of coherent, unified face to the electorate then it'd be possible to see whether they agree with it.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Monkeygrinder's Organ
Dodgy geezer swilling vapid lager
Yeah. What Labour really need to do is promise to be even worse to those people than the Tories. Then they can get into power and help them.
I do know that this is what moving left has done to us, and the polls appear to continue to be doing.
Being told to calm down in a patronising manner over the Tories being able to act unchecked shows that some just play politics.
Why write this bollocks? What point do you think you make by pretending I said this?
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
I expect you'll find some way to blame that on the "Corbynistas", too.
Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
By offering them an electoral choice which they positively like, which they are genuinely enthused by. Doing this wouldn't automatically result in an equal or greater number of people, similarly committed to opposing that electoral choice; that is an ill thought out assumption.
Louis MacNeice
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Louis MacNeice
Autumn Journalist
1. Who has blamed the electorate; some evidence please? And if you don't think the press has interests and a role to play in shaping the dominant public political discourse then you are more at sea than I thought.
2. What method would you prefer for electing a leader, selecting candidates, formulating and agreeing policy? You tell people to stop blaming the electorate but apparently you are quite happy to blame the Labour Party electorate; so it would seem apart from the relative handful of members of the PLP, the Labour Party has the wrong sort of members...longstanding stalwarts like yourself excepted of course.
Louis MacNeice
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
wow, you really are fucking thick. That or just a shit troll. Offer people something positive, and they respond, funnily enough. The kippers manage it, the greens do, so Labour could.
oh yes, much better idea to be a torylite, that's a really well worked out strategy. I note you have nothing , no evidence, historical or otherwise, to back up your assertion. Not surprisingly
actually the pollsters have found a very small number of tory switchers, so if you're calling me a liar, you're calling them one too. tho we know who the actual liar is, dont we?
You're not a member of the Labour Party at all.
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