Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

[MarkyMarrk]

I expect you'll find some way to blame that on the "Corbynistas", too.

Well yes, making Labour unelectable has left the Tories unchecked. They can do what they like, comfortable in the knowledge that they'll increase their majority from an incredible election result.

The attached is why. But it's inconvenient to Corbynistas so they ignore it.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Also to mention that in actual fact Corbyn has managed to go the other way.

Turn Labour voters into Tories and turn Labour voters into Lib dems and non voters - and I do know people in each of those categories.

So it currently stands a great deal higher than fifteen percent of mythical non-voters.

I see that fifteen percent includes people who voted lib dem at the last election - IE voted for the existing government.

I give up. Have your pure, put of power Labour Party. Let the Tories do what they want unchallenged. You lot make me sick.

While you play politics, those people a labour government would have helped. Those people that need a labour government and can't play politics, can carry on dying under the Tories. Disgrace.

How many actual Lib Dem voters have been created; once again evidence please?

There are people on these boards who have decades of providing support for people left behind and actively excluded by Conservative, Labour and coalition governments; having a hissy fit because you cannot win an argument on a message board doesn't fill me with confidence about your ability to build up such a track record.

Louis MacNeice

 

[killer b]

I'm afraid 'tory lite' has been added to the banned words list.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

1. Who has blamed the electorate; some evidence please? And if you don't think the press has interests and a role to play in shaping the dominant public political discourse then you are more at sea than I thought.

2. What method would you prefer for electing a leader, selecting candidates, formulating and agreeing policy? You tell people to stop blaming the electorate but apparently you are quite happy to blame the Labour Party electorate; so it would seem apart from the relative handful of members of the PLP, the Labour Party has the wrong sort of members...longstanding stalwarts like yourself excepted of course.

Louis MacNeice

The Labour Party is constantly saying it's the electorate that needs to change. See this thread for an example.

Yes, I partly blame the £3 "members" and the Trots, Communists and greens who entered our party for their own purposes, not really caring whether we get a Labour Government. I also blame moderate Labour Party members. We messed up. I blame us for shutting up in the name of unity when the outcome of Miliband's leadership was incredibly clear and predictable and we'd been predicting it in semi-private for at least two years, and it's our fault for saying almost nothing during the election when he did stupid things like the Stone or Russell Brand.

 

[existentialist]

Well yes, making Labour unelectable has left the Tories unchecked. They can do what they like, comfortable in the knowledge that they'll increase their majority from an incredible election result.

The attached is why. But it's inconvenient to Corbynistas so they ignore it.

"Corbynistas" have only been in evidence for about 4 months. How are they supposed to have fucked up Labour's chances in 2010 or 2015?

Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Labour lost in those elections was because of the machinations of a sekrit fifth column of ultra-hard-lefties, and not because the party was essentially a pile of shit, with non-credible leadership and policies that read like a list of stuff Lynton Crosby had chucked in the bin for not being quite evil enough?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

I'm afraid 'tory lite' has been added to the banned words list.

Ju

By offering them an electoral choice which they positively like, which they are genuinely enthused by. Doing this wouldn't automatically result in an equal or greater number of people, similarly committed to opposing that electoral choice; that is an ill thought out assumption.

Louis MacNeice

That fifteen percent that don't exist then.
Non-voters are generally more rightwing than voters. Another inconvenient fact ignored by Corbynistas. When that report came out just after the election, it literally got ignored by them.

 

[belboid]

The Labour Party is constantly saying it's the electorate that needs to change. See this thread for an example.

Can't you think of an example that is actually true?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

"Corbynistas" have only been in evidence for about 4 months. How are they supposed to have fucked up Labour's chances in 2010 or 2015?

Are you seriously suggesting that the reason Labour lost in those elections was because of the machinations of a sekrit fifth column of ultra-hard-lefties, and not because the party was essentially a pile of shit, with non-credible leadership and policies that read like a list of stuff Lynton Crosby had chucked in the bin for not being quite evil enough?

No, I'm talking about the state of the Labour Party now.

I blame moderates for shutting up in the name of unity as Miliband and acolytes continued the 'to the left' project. I was worried we'd have a third Brownite leader in three, but it's far far worse than that.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

It's not true that 'we need to persuade them to change' is the common narrative?
Now you're just lying.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

wow, you really are fucking thick. That or just a shit troll. Offer people something positive, and they respond, funnily enough. The kippers manage it, the greens do, so Labour could.


oh yes, much better idea to be a torylite, that's a really well worked out strategy. I note you have nothing , no evidence, historical or otherwise, to back up your assertion. Not surprisingly


actually the pollsters have found a very small number of tory switchers, so if you're calling me a liar, you're calling them one too. tho we know who the actual liar is, dont we?

You're not a member of the Labour Party at all.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The Labour Party is constantly saying it's the electorate that needs to change. See this thread for an example.

Yes, I partly blame the £3 "members" and the Trots, Communists and greens who entered our party for their own purposes, not really caring whether we get a Labour Government. I also blame moderate Labour Party members. We messed up. I blame us for shutting up in the name of unity when the outcome of Miliband's leadership was incredibly clear and predictable and we'd been predicting it in semi-private for at least two years, and it's our fault for saying almost nothing during the election when he did stupid things like the Stone or Russell Brand.

Evidence please; you know quotes and stuff...not just assertion.

Labour members in all parts of the party except the PLP voted for Corbyn. So you are blaming a majority of Labour Party members for exercising their democratic choice wrongly; and yet you see no irony in chucking about 'don't blame the electorate' rhetoric. You say that Corbyn is a hypocrite but I fancy I see more than a splinter in your own eye.

Louis MacNeice

 

[killer b]

'corbynite' is also banned. no exceptions.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Keep closing your ears to facts in the name of 'Corbyn is getting it right and will win'.
You're wrong, and the Tories know it, hence them saying they'll implement their manifesto in full. A manifesto that was designed as the starting point for negotiations. They're openly laughing and they are implementing something far to the right of what they expected to be able to get away with. Because there is no opposition. The polls are the evidence.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Ju


That fifteen percent that don't exist then.
Non-voters are generally more rightwing than voters. Another inconvenient fact ignored by Corbynistas. When that report came out just after the election, it literally got ignored by them.

If you are at University then you will have been made aware of the notion of supplying supporting evidence; it's not tricky, so why not treat the rest of posters with some respect and a least try to back up your claims?

Louis MacNeice

 

[Louis MacNeice]

MarkyMarr: 'I object to the constant blaming of the press...'

Meanwhile in other news:

'The right wing press are really stepping up that anti-migrant stuff now. I know they always have, but it's across the board. I think it will become the underlying centrepiece of the out campaign.' MarkyMarrk



​

So MarkyMarrk, that objection to 'blaming the press' thing; how's that working out for you?

Louis MacNeice

 

[belboid]

That fifteen percent that don't exist then.
Non-voters are generally more rightwing than voters. Another inconvenient fact ignored by Corbynistas. When that report came out just after the election, it literally got ignored by them.

you're a really big fan of the unjustified and unsubstantiated assertion, aren't you? I suppose trolls usually are.

 

[belboid]

that attachment doesn't relate to the quote you qiuoted, does it?


I hope you argued rather more coherently on the doorstep, because the way you're going I think you might have got me to vote tory

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Evidence please; you know quotes and stuff...not just assertion.

Labour members in all parts of the party except the PLP voted for Corbyn. So you are blaming a majority of Labour Party members for exercising their democratic choice wrongly; and yet you see no irony in chucking about 'don't blame the electorate' rhetoric. You say that Corbyn is a hypocrite but I fancy I see more than a splinter in your own eye.

Louis MacNeice

I think the 9million voters who voted for Labour MPs should be considered ahead of those who paid £3.

MarkyMarr: 'I object to the constant blaming of the press...'

Meanwhile in other news:

'The right wing press are really stepping up that anti-migrant stuff now. I know they always have, but it's across the board. I think it will become the underlying centrepiece of the out campaign.' MarkyMarrk



​

So MarkyMarrk, that objection to 'blaming the press' thing; how's that working out for you?

Louis MacNeice

I mean by the Labour Party for not getting elected.

Someone asked for evidence of non-voters... I've been looking for the stuff I read. Here's one: The non-voter myth

 

[MarkyMarrk]

When asked what prevented non-voters from supporting Labour, the top 4 responses were: 35% ‘don’t know’, 30% ‘they can’t be trusted with the economy’, 23% ‘they would make it too easy for people to live on benefits’, 22% ‘they would raise taxes’.

How inconvenient.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Compare the results to people who did vote, but didn’t vote Labour. Again, the top 4 responses: 40% ‘they can’t be trusted with the economy’, 25% they would make it too easy for people to live on benefits’, 24% ‘they would be bossed around by Nicola Sturgeon’, 19% ‘don’t know’.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

you're a really big fan of the unjustified and unsubstantiated assertion, aren't you? I suppose trolls usually are.

Will you fuck off with calling people who disagree with you 'trolls'.

It's ok to disagree.

The non-voter myth

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Fabian research showed 4 out of 5 extra votes Labour needs must come from Tory voters. Jon Cruddas’ review of the election shows the deficit is the top priority.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

But show this to a Corbyn supporter and they will bury their head in the sand. The Cruddas polling is full of leading questions. The Fabians are secret Tories

Has he been reading this thread?

 

[MarkyMarrk]

Rather than sell out to these false prophets, they say, we just need to inspire non-voters. British socialism has failed to take root because there is a hidden part of the electorate who just have yet to be adequately inspired.

 

[MarkyMarrk]

I wonder how the polling by the TUC will be dismissed.

 

[belboid]

Will you fuck off with calling people who disagree with you 'trolls'.

It's ok to disagree.

The non-voter myth

It's fine to disagree, as long as you do it honestly, which you dont.

The figures you just quoted (very badly, you could try and put it all in one post) don't support your assertion that non-voters are more right-wing than voters.

 

[belboid]

I wonder how the polling by the TUC will be dismissed.

and you wonder why you get called a troll?

 

[nino_savatte]

This poll makes me angry. We're making no headway despite it:

On how well David Cameron is doing as Prime Minister: Well: 43% (-) Badly: 49% (-2) (via YouGov / 14 - 15 Jan) Chgs. from 05 - 06 Jan.

It's another push poll, you fucking numpty. Do you know what the phrase 'confirmation bias' means?

 

[redsquirrel]

The Labour Party is constantly saying it's the electorate that needs to change. See this thread for an example.

The fact that the majority of those posting are even members of the LP seems to have escaped you.

I think the 9million voters who voted for Labour MPs should be considered ahead of those who paid £3.

So those people who actually pay up and attend meetings should have less say over how the party is run than people who don't pay anything and who don't want to engage with the party beyond putting a check next to a box every X years. Even supposing this is desirable how is it can it possibly work practically.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fabian research showed 4 out of 5 extra votes Labour needs must come from Tory voters. Jon Cruddas’ review of the election shows the deficit is the top priority.

Rubbish. Cruddas wants to believe that votes need to come from Tory voters. Nowhere in that report is there an indication as to how this 'research' was conducted.