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Corbyn & Cabinet in the Media

MarkyMarrk said:
The other thing the moderates are doing badly, in my view, is the minority of moderates whispering about hoping we don't win MoL. This is just nonsense. As I said earlier in the thread, it's frustrating that we're doing the campaigning and the new members don't. They refuse to travel to walk the streets. But we should be campaigning without the whispering and we should want a victory - it makes a difference to Londoners if we win.
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"Moderates"... how quaint.
 
nino_savatte said:
The way in which you use the word 'electorate' is rather odd: you seem to think the 'electorate' agrees with you and your cherry-picked polls.

Answer me this: for all your whining about 'the left', do you favour a one party state in which there are token opposition parties, none of which have anything that could be remotely described as individual identities? I ask that question because you're clearly someone who subscribes to right-wing politics. Franco would have loved you.
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No, I want Labour to win an election. Hence a healthy and viable opposition. You seem comfortable with the Tories guaranteed to get in. And you offer nothing else.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
Corbyn has possibly made Labour winning worth something. That's the point you miss with a lot of us here, certainly me. There is a chance a Labour govt won't just be another version of the Tories. There is a chance voting Labour could mean something again.
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Bliss was it in that dawn to be alive. But to be articul8 was very heaven.
 
MarkyMarrk said:
No, I want Labour to win an election. Hence a healthy and viable opposition. You seem comfortable with the Tories guaranteed to get in. And you offer nothing else.
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No, you want a Labour Party that agrees with Tory cuts. You want a Labour Party that appeals to right-wing voters. In both cases, a Labour Party that does those things is little better than a token opposition party under Franco's regime. There is nothing "healthy" or "viable" in an opposition party that neither opposes nor offers voters a clear alternative. Indeed, during the leadership contest, none of the self-styled moderates offered hope. Instead, we got the same spiel "we're dealing with the world as it is, not as we'd like it to be". Those words were revealing because they summed up the candidates' lack of an alternative vision. It also told me and those attentive enough to notice, that the 'moderates' (sic) were more than happy to plough the same neoliberal furrow as the Tories and the Blairities.
 
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MarkyMarrk said:
The other thing the moderates are doing badly, in my view, is the minority of moderates whispering about hoping we don't win MoL. This is just nonsense. As I said earlier in the thread, it's frustrating that we're doing the campaigning and the new members don't. They refuse to travel to walk the streets. But we should be campaigning without the whispering and we should want a victory - it makes a difference to Londoners if we win.
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I have no idea if you're a new member or not. I also know from personal experience of new members who are out campaigning. So why should I accept your anecdata?

MarkyMarrk said:
There is no chance of Labour Government with Corbyn.
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Again with the evidence free assertions; it's almost as if you just want to provoke a reaction so as not to engage in a discussion.

Louis Macneice
 
MarkyMarrk said:
I agree there is a media bias. I have confidence in the electorate to know that as well. I also think we have to talk to the electorate where they are, not in this fantasy world where if they don't vote Tory they are left of us. They're patently not.

Do you think they're all sheep?
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So the media are pushing an agenda but the electorate will see through it. Does the same hold true for migration and the EU? or in other words get you story straight.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice
 
DownwardDog said:
The bookies have him on 8-1 to be PM after the 2020 GE which seems ludicrously short odds.
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At one point early in the leadership campaign, you could get 100-1 on Corbyn winning it. I'm not sure what any of this is supposed to show. Given the tories won just last year and the next election is four years away, any labour leader would be long odds against at this moment on being next PM.
 
MarkyMarrk said:
If they confirm my bias, they're evidence.
Can you show that non-voters are more likely to vote Labour than other parties? Because I've only seen evidence to the contrary. Go on, support your position.
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non-voters aren't more likely to vote Labour, they are more likely, by a very long mark, to not vote. That's what 'non-voter' means. Tricky, I know.

The polls are evidence. One was carried out by the TUC.
It can't be dismissed because you don't agree with it, which is what you're trying. i.e. "you agree with it, so it confirms your position, so it's not evidence".
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But the one you quoted showed exactly the opposite of what you claimed it did. Why are you ignoring this fact?
 
I am surprised no one has mentioned Margaret Beckett's report about why Labour lost in 2015. From the BBC summary:

■ Ed Miliband wasn't judged to be as strong a leader as David Cameron
■ A failure to shake off "the myth" that Labour was responsible for the financial crash and failure to build trust on the economy
■ An inability to deal with the issues of "connection" and, in particular, failing to convince on benefits and immigration
■ The fear of the SNP "propping up" a minority Labour government

So how does Corbyn deal with these? And would a 'moderate' leader be able to do anything different?

I do think Corbyn's views on immigration will harm him, but the 'strength in leadership' issue is surely being undermined by the right wing of the LP.
 
MarkyMarrk said:
Will you fuck off with calling people who disagree with you 'trolls'.

It's ok to disagree.

The non-voter myth
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Am i missing something here? The poll setters decided on a list of things to present as possible reasons for being put off voting Labour, among them no 'They were too r/w, just like the Tories' or similar. And yet this author says:

Unsurprisingly, there is no ‘Labour weren’t left-wing enough so I just went to the pub instead and let the Tories get elected’.
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No, there isn't - because the polling company decided there wouldn't be.

Are you reading the links you post up? Because this particular author appears not to understand the data he is presenting in his argument.
 
mk12 said:
I am surprised no one has mentioned Margaret Beckett's report about why Labour lost in 2015. From the BBC summary:

■ Ed Miliband wasn't judged to be as strong a leader as David Cameron
■ A failure to shake off "the myth" that Labour was responsible for the financial crash and failure to build trust on the economy
■ An inability to deal with the issues of "connection" and, in particular, failing to convince on benefits and immigration
■ The fear of the SNP "propping up" a minority Labour government

So how does Corbyn deal with these? And would a 'moderate' leader be able to do anything different?

I do think Corbyn's views on immigration will harm him, but the 'strength in leadership' issue is surely being undermined by the right wing of the LP.
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These are important points. However, the moderates did shut up for the sake of Miliband, allowed him to believe he was leading a united party and the country to believe the same. They were wrong to do so. They should not be quiet about Corbyn being wrong.
 
nino_savatte said:
No, you want a Labour Party that agrees with Tory cuts. You want a Labour Party that appeals to right-wing voters. In both cases, a Labour Party that does those things is little better than a token opposition party under Franco's regime. There is nothing "healthy" or "viable" in an opposition party that neither opposes nor offers voters a clear alternative. Indeed, during the leadership contest, none of the self-styled moderates offered hope. Instead, we got the same spiel "we're dealing with the world as it is, not as we'd like it to be". Those words were revealing because they summed up the candidates' lack of an alternative vision. It also told me and those attentive enough to notice, that the 'moderates' (sic) were more than happy to plough the same neoliberal furrow as the Tories and the Blairities.
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Why do you make up words and attribute them to me?
 
MarkyMarrk said:
This poll makes me angry. We're making no headway despite it:

On how well David Cameron is doing as Prime Minister: Well: 43% (-) Badly: 49% (-2) (via YouGov / 14 - 15 Jan) Chgs. from 05 - 06 Jan.
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And the sample size for those polls?
You never mention those sorts of details. Quite likely because you know that the samples are small, and in Yougov's case, those that are polled are self-confessedly interested in party politics.
So, no confounding factors at work. :facepalm:
 
DownwardDog said:
It'll be just fine. The High Sparrow only needs to win about 100 seats from the Conservatives to be PM. Corbyn is fucking thick but I don't think even he believes he will ever be PM. He is just treating his stint as LotO as a footballer's testimonial. The valedictory capstone to a lengthy career spent doing nothing but talking shite to arseholes.
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You mean that Corbyn has engaged in conversation with you?
 
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