Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Conspiraloons – why...?

Sasaferrato said:
could someone explain the eightfold rise in autism in Scotland since MMR was introduced?

First hypothesis to test: changing diagnostic criteria.

Second: financial benefits of statementing. Has statementing been reined in in Scotland? Will the rate fall again where it is?

Sasaferrato said:
Don't write off conspiracy theorists as nutters, they may not always be entirely right, but there is often a large element of accuracy in their concerns.

But we are talking about the nutters. If they're right, it's by accident. Which doesn't count as a contribution to knowledge.
 
jæd said:
Hi,

At the risk of spending too much time on a sunny day on this, why are they are allowed to persist on the boards... I'm not going to name names, but I think one of them has already upset at least one person on this board, and probably is upsetting more.

Given them access to the boards just lets have another place to peddle their distorted facts, and reduces the amount of meaningful discussion on some subjects.

So would it be possible to ammend the faq to stop their silly tripe...?
xxxxxxxxxx
 
jæd said:
Why...? These people are seriously deluded amount themselves and others...
A description that fits just about anyone, surely? Well, anyone with a religious belief. :cool:
 
Sasaferrato said:
Um, yes. check it out -- the various varieties of religious belief contradict each other. So they can't all be right, can they? Some serious delusions are going down somewhere.

But thanks for the thoughtful contribution. :p
 
Azrael23 said:
Well i`ve been branded anti-semitic for saying the global banking system is run by a collective of elite families.

I`ve been called a conspiraloon for saying the US govt have lied about what happened on 9/11.
No. You've been called a conspiraloon for making ridiculous assertions without any evidence, then moving the goalposts and wriggling around when you were called on it. Repeatedly.


Azrael23 said:
I`ve been told i`m a lunatic for telling people about Bohemian Grove.
No. You've been told you're a lunatic for conflating ridiculously broad claims with the whole Bohemian Grove thing without any evidence, then moving the goalposts and wriggling around when you were called on it. Repeatedly.

But you don't call for people to be banned, no.
 
barredowls.jpg
 
Azrael23 said:
Well i`ve been branded anti-semitic for saying the global banking system is run by a collective of elite families.

I`ve been called a conspiraloon for saying the US govt have lied about what happened on 9/11.

I`ve been told i`m a lunatic for telling people about Bohemian Grove.

Do I post up whinging posts about how the "truth haters" should be banned? :rolleyes:

Cretin.

You have been "branded" antisemitic because you recycle, probably without knowing it, many of the conspiracies that have been cooked up against the Jews in the last century and a half. They come from the same fevered place.

You've been called a conspiraloon because you continue to see global politics
as a movie in which you have finally been given a role.

You are a gullible idiot.
 
Dirty Martini said:
You have been "branded" antisemitic because you recycle, probably without knowing it, many of the conspiracies that have been cooked up against the Jews in the last century and a half. They come from the same fevered place.
But this is guilt by association, which is in fact a feature of racism, isn't it? Azrael has come out with nothing anti-semitic.
 
Dirty Martini said:
You have been "branded" antisemitic because you recycle, probably without knowing it, many of the conspiracies that have been cooked up against the Jews

Thing it, azrael23's espousing an ideology gives him a responsibility to discover its roots and associations.

So he's an anti-semite in disguise or he's an irresponsible delusional fantasist (or both).
 
I haven`t said jack about jewish people, I don`t even bang on about any protocol bollocks, I`m more concerned about things like ID cards and the police state being set up. You people who are so quick to bandy about your little catch all terms like conspiracy theory, anti-semitic, post-modern feminist.....just fuck off. Seriously, i`m not often abrubt but you have read Orwell, your familiar with the idea that language can be used a weapon to destroy ideas. Stop boxing everything.


As for me distorting and lying about bohemian grove,
BOHEMIAN GROVE IS REAL...GET OVER IT....EVERY YEAR MINOR ELITE LIKE POLITICIANS, BIG BUSINESS LEADERS, GENERALS ETC....sorry shouldn`t anger!

Every year 2000 of the minor elite gather at the Bohemian Grove for 2 weeks. Where they run around naked, ship in male prostitutes, have orgies, get driven into town to get (female) prostitutes, set policy in "lakeside talks" oh and hold mock human sacrifices to an ancient canaanite deity Molech. Who yes....is symbolised as the owl....the cold hard mind/vigilance. They then sacrifice the mock human to the invented SYMBOLIC daemon god to help them dismiss their conscience, to be set free from their emotion.

Is it freaky wierd shit? Yes.

Does that mean its not true? No.

I`ve got a recording of them doing it, I know theres no way its doctored, I see media verification....I see lines about "oh it was a theatrical production"..and I see that here is truth.

My opinion lies in where I make a judgement on the nature of those proceedings and in what sense they are administered.

I don`t care what you guys think but I`ll never support the people at that place, either directly nor indirectly. By leasing your mind to installed preconceptions you are supporting them. I know you`ll quip about conspiraloonery and believing we`re some kind of master truth seekers but thats bollocks. I`m just trying to tell you something! I got my dreams same as you, I want to travel and see the world like anyone does, you think I spend my time on these things because I enjoy the situation they depict? Don`t be so naive, you should credit people who are concerned not insist they are delusional.

Whats the most absurd thing I claim? That the global banking system is run by a handful of people from a small number of elite families.

Its bloody true! See for yourself. You bet your bottom dollar lizzy laughs her ass off everytime she sees these articles on how the monarchy is powerless and defunct....whilst her face is plastered all over the very thing that controls us all.
 
Jazzz said:
But this is guilt by association, which is in fact a feature of racism, isn't it? Azrael has come out with nothing anti-semitic.

Not personally saying this poster is antisemitic, at all. Just that his fevered dreams of world conspiracy started life, not always but in enough significant cases, somewhere pretty squalid. You should then maybe look at where these ideas came from; and maybe that might tell you how wide of the mark they are.

The same goes for your mate Icke.
 
Not personally saying this poster is antisemitic, at all. Just that his fevered dreams of world conspiracy started life, not always but in enough significant cases, somewhere pretty squalid. You should then maybe look at where these ideas came from; and maybe that might tell you how wide of the mark they are.
Should we ban anyone who advocates communism because of pol pot then?
 
samk said:
Should we ban anyone who advocates communism because of pol pot then?

No but if they come on here trolling about how humane he was and everyone that disagrees is deluded etc they can fuck right off.
 
Dirty Martini said:
Not personally saying this poster is antisemitic, at all. Just that his fevered dreams of world conspiracy started life, not always but in enough significant cases, somewhere pretty squalid. You should then maybe look at where these ideas came from; and maybe that might tell you how wide of the mark they are.

The same goes for your mate Icke.

Oh its the "if I bring up david icke, I`ll win" routine. Pretty predictable stuff.

Also claiming that somehow everything I claim as evidence is in fact progenitored by fascist militants with a penchant for racism....i`m afraid your the one whose far off the mark.

Witness the PNAC documents...they were written by cheney, j bush, wolfowitz....oh wait....

In all seriousness what the flying fook has questioning the 9/11 storyline, citing the banking elite as our masters, believing in republican reform got to do with anti-semitism!!!?? In any sense, I fail to see how my beliefs such as what you know tie into old racist politics?
Your the one whose bloody delusional.
 
Dirty Martini said:

It's not quite up to "time flies like an arrow" standards, but it is a doozy, isn't it?

  1. Should our banning of someone who advocates communism be caused by Pol Pot?
  2. Should we ban someone whose advocacy of communism is caused by Pol Pot?
  3. Should we ban someone whose advocacy of communism is caused by Pol Pot, but not those who advocate communism for other reasons?
  4. Should we ban someone who believes that Pol Pot is the antecedent of communism?
  5. * falls asleep *
 
azrael23 said:
flying fook has ... citing the banking elite as our masters ... got to do with anti-semitism!

Gaaaaa. The phrase itself makes it obvious to anyone with half a fucking brain and any significant background in politics.

You jumped up little twerp - go and do some fucking research. You're so keen on "research" to prove your delusions are shared by others. Now do some to challenge them and yourself, or fuck off.

When you first polluted these boards with your malign presence it was pointed out to you, slowly and patiently as befits communication with the young, naïve and clearly stoned, that the thesis that "the banking élite are our masters" and particularly the variant around "the debt-money conspiracy" that you arrived to spam the boards with have a long and entirely anti-Jewish background.

If you continue to deny this ideological lineage, the only conclusion to be drawn will be that you are in fact a conscious anti-Jewish racist trying to be "clever".
 
No you`ll find your a small minded fool who thinks that because he has been told that anyone speaking of a global conspiracy is by default recycling old anti-semitic propaganda, he can brand me anti-semitic.

Which is BULLOCKS.

You do realise that like most things these days the central banks have owners. I`m just saying they work like a bloody dynasty.

Speak of my ignorance! :D You deny your own masters!
 
Sasaferrato said:
Funny how things turn out. There is an epidemic of mumps amongst late teenagers beecause, in spite of two doses, MMR has proved not to be terribly effective.
Vaccination is not always particularly effective at the individual level. In such cases, vaccination programmes require "herd immunity" to be effective. It depends on how infectious the disease is, but typically well over 90% of the population must be vaccinated to prevent large outbreaks. The reduction in uptake of MMR since Andrew Wakefield managed to get his tiny uncontrolled study published is therefore likely to be responsible for the outbreak of mumps, and various (thankfully localised) outbreaks of measles.

Whilst we are at it, could someone explain the eightfold rise in autism in Scotland since MMR was introduced?
Various explanations have been proposed, including the already-mentioned changes in diagnostic criteria, which I think is likely to be one of the more important factors.

I think you probably mean an 8-fold rise in the specific type of autism that Andrew Wakefield associated with remnants of the measles vaccine found in bowel tissue of affected children (never actually directly to MMR - that's pure speculation and pre-conceived bias on his part) rather than an 8-fold rise in all autisms, but you haven't provided a link so I can't check what you actually meant. An 8-fold rise in a very rare and relatively recently described disease which would previously have had a different diagnostic label is not particularly spectacular. The rise in incidence of this form of autism is similar across the West, despite marked differences in year of introduction and uptake of MMR in different countries, which suggests that any apparent association is an example of the ecological fallacy.

It's also worth mentioning that the profoundly disabling effects that measles can have for young children are both much more serious and much more common than the form of autism claimed to be caused by MMR. Mumps in adults is also a very serious disease (much more so than for children), often leading to permanent infertility in men. German measles (the third disease that MMR protects against) causes profound disability in unborn children should their mothers become infected while pregnant. A few decades ago it was realised that immunising teenage girls was insufficient to prevent them catching the disease (due to the lack of herd immunity), and so now we vaccinate both sexes at a much younger age.

MMR is more effective than single vaccines because - if you belief Wakefield's unscientific and irresponsible nonsense - there is no point giving them all at the same time (otherwise it's just MMR), which massively prolongs the window of time during which children (and therefore all of us) remain unprotected. Furthermore, multiple vaccinations given over a long period of time mean that jabs are more likely to be missed or forgotten, and this problem is compounded by the need for multiple booster jabs which are also more likely to be missed.

Even if Wakefield is 100% correct, far far less disability is caused by using MMR than any other strategy. Personally, having reviewed his research and some of the work which followed it, I believe he's wrong, very wrong. If his hypothesis continues to be successful in reducing uptake rates of MMR, he may well end up doing more damage to more children than any other doctor in history. And, just to reiterate, the last sentence is true even if he's 100% right about a link.

Apologies for derail.
 
I fail to see how bombarding a childs immune system with all manner of noxious agents is going to benefit them.
There are too many active agents in modern vaccines. Inert copy of a pathogen to give the immune system a prior blueprint, second response etc. Thats all well and good, but in my opinion there is nothing inert about modern day vaccines.

BTW autism has been described for a long time. They were one of the groups that big pharma loved to come up with new magic potions to "fix", so detection rates have always been sound, so id say your idea that its only recently begun to be diagnosed is poppycock.....
 
Back
Top Bottom