Structaural
in Chatsubo
the lizards made me do it
Conspiraloons – why...?
- Thread starter jæd
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fogbat
The Talibum
loud 1 said:
I was a bit disappointed by that video
I'm a big fan of Penn and Teller, but I don't feel they argued their points with reasoned logic, which has to be the best way of dealing with conspiraloons.
Then again, I can well understand the frustration of dealing with fricking idiots, with ridiculous beliefs based on what the pixies in their head tell them. Sometimes outright ridicule is the only option
pembrokestephen
New Member
And therein lies your problem, I think ...zArk said:
Genghis Cohen
Minister For Scrabble
loud 1 said:
Alarm bells went off when the tone changed around 02:00, screaming 'fuck you, fuck you, arsehole, cunt, twat' makes you no better than azrael, its just 9 minutes of emotionally charged "something bad happened, people died and anyone who questions it is a right cunt."
fogbat
The Talibum
Genghis Cohen said:
Yep. P & T usually seem fairly level-headed about these things, but their arguments on this seemed to consist of Fox News-style shouting at those who disagree.
I'd like to imagine it was a product of pure frustration, having listened to one conspiraloon too many
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Of course in a way the "loon" label is unfair: when you first come across it, it can be fascinating, finding out about "inconsistencies" in official accounts and trying to piece together what really happened. For an older generation it was the JFK assassination rather than 9/11: I've ploughed through a couple of books on this and of course there was Oliver Stone's film on the subject.
It's only when you realise that all the alternative theories are lacking in any sound evidence at all, that there's a complete absence of individuals coming forward (even many years after these events) to say they were involved and that every time something comes up, there's a new conspiracy theory - and then persist in believing that something must have happened - that it becomes genuinely obsessional and unhealthy.
It's only when you realise that all the alternative theories are lacking in any sound evidence at all, that there's a complete absence of individuals coming forward (even many years after these events) to say they were involved and that every time something comes up, there's a new conspiracy theory - and then persist in believing that something must have happened - that it becomes genuinely obsessional and unhealthy.
fogbat said:Then again, I can well understand the frustration of dealing with fricking idiots, with ridiculous beliefs based on what the pixies in their head tell them. Sometimes outright ridicule is the only option
Spot on ....
The silly thing is there is alot of interesting stuff about potential wrongdoings/clandestine operations that has some credibility and is (almost) as exciting - as long as you don't need disappearing aeroplanes to get you thinking.
Scott Ritter on the road to the Iraq War. Duncan Campbell on Echelon.
Ritter was utterly fascinating, because he had been in a position of "subject expert" so what he was saying had the possibility of being right. A surprising amount of his predictions turned out to be exactly what happened - it was only the dates he predicted that ended up being slightly out.
Duncan Campbell on Echelon... well he was called as an expert commentator by the EU. The subsequent EU report again, fascinating. You can dig it out and read it. It's not the rantings of a madman - it's the findings of a committee who wanted to understand the facts behind a system that was potentially being used against EU strategic interests. But with an EU participant (the UK).
And there's other stuff to be interested in. Deepcut. British Military experiments with drugs. The Chinook helicopter crash. All sorts. All sorts where people with credibility are challenging, or have challenged, the official view of events. Not all those challenges might turn out to be true but at least there's something worthy of having the debate.
All one needs - and somewhere in the depth of this thread the point has been made - is critical faculties to spot the loon material from the potentially real issues.
Scott Ritter on the road to the Iraq War. Duncan Campbell on Echelon.
Ritter was utterly fascinating, because he had been in a position of "subject expert" so what he was saying had the possibility of being right. A surprising amount of his predictions turned out to be exactly what happened - it was only the dates he predicted that ended up being slightly out.
Duncan Campbell on Echelon... well he was called as an expert commentator by the EU. The subsequent EU report again, fascinating. You can dig it out and read it. It's not the rantings of a madman - it's the findings of a committee who wanted to understand the facts behind a system that was potentially being used against EU strategic interests. But with an EU participant (the UK).
And there's other stuff to be interested in. Deepcut. British Military experiments with drugs. The Chinook helicopter crash. All sorts. All sorts where people with credibility are challenging, or have challenged, the official view of events. Not all those challenges might turn out to be true but at least there's something worthy of having the debate.
All one needs - and somewhere in the depth of this thread the point has been made - is critical faculties to spot the loon material from the potentially real issues.
>>paolo
Most full on conspiraloons aren't interested in that kind of REAL conspiracy/scandal though. The only time they ever seem inclined to mention them is to say stuff like 'Oh, so you're not 'openminded' enough to think about this article on Rense about space aliens controlling our minds? It's obvious then that you're the sort who gullibly believed everything the Government had to say about Iraq!'
Most conspiracists seem to be unable to break this mental leap equating sceptics of conspiracies with mindless unquestioning sheeple like drinking in of establishment propaganda. If they have ANY interest at all (which often I doubt!!) in persuading neutrals to think about their 'alternative versions', they really ought to be better than they seem to be at understanding how sheer bloody insulting their elitist arrogance is. 'Only us 'truthseekers' are smart enough to see though the lies and evils of Governments, the rest of you are gullible dupes!' -- this sort of mindset, implicit if not stated outright, comes over very clearly very often, not least in this thread, and to others not already in their circle, it irritates and offends.
I'd sooner trust people like Bernie Gunther and laptop and Violent Panda -- true dissidents from establishment versions of reality -- than the crazy fruitloops who get in the way of genuine investigative reseach.
Most full on conspiraloons aren't interested in that kind of REAL conspiracy/scandal though. The only time they ever seem inclined to mention them is to say stuff like 'Oh, so you're not 'openminded' enough to think about this article on Rense about space aliens controlling our minds? It's obvious then that you're the sort who gullibly believed everything the Government had to say about Iraq!'
Most conspiracists seem to be unable to break this mental leap equating sceptics of conspiracies with mindless unquestioning sheeple like drinking in of establishment propaganda. If they have ANY interest at all (which often I doubt!!) in persuading neutrals to think about their 'alternative versions', they really ought to be better than they seem to be at understanding how sheer bloody insulting their elitist arrogance is. 'Only us 'truthseekers' are smart enough to see though the lies and evils of Governments, the rest of you are gullible dupes!' -- this sort of mindset, implicit if not stated outright, comes over very clearly very often, not least in this thread, and to others not already in their circle, it irritates and offends.
I'd sooner trust people like Bernie Gunther and laptop and Violent Panda -- true dissidents from establishment versions of reality -- than the crazy fruitloops who get in the way of genuine investigative reseach.
KeyboardJockey
Clowns to the Left of me
BootyLove said:
I've got to get that on a T shirt.
White Lotus
Provisional Buddhist
Seconded.William of Walworth said:
"The trouble with having an open mind, is that people keep coming along and putting things in it."
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