care in the uk - a disgrace

[Shechemite]

sorry to hear that

I do a bit in MH services and supported accommodation is woefully under funded. the levels of support on offer for people is just not good enough.

Yep. Whilst it wouldn’t be sufficient to only increase funding, without a *massive* increase in funding I can’t see how services can be as they should. As austerity has rolled on services have become more abusive and coercive.

 

[Shechemite]

It’s just fucking grim

 

[Shechemite]

“Police are currently investigating claims that a number of vulnerable patients were subjected to physical and mental abuse.”

MP calls for Muckamore public inquiry

 

[8115]

Thanks for posting the Radio 4 link - very interesting.

 

[BristolEcho]

Minimum wage and little or no training is it any suprise care is shit. US nurses get 50,000 a year, in the UK it's like 25,000. Carers on about 16,000.

I'm sorry, but wage cannot be brought into the abuse debate. I think that workers need to demand a higher rate of pay, but we can't put abuse forward as a leverage for that.

Poor payment can be attributed to loss of staff and poor training, both of which can both lead to abuse, but I think we need to shun the idea that low pay = abuse.

 

[IC3D]

Undervaluing people working long hours who do heavy emotionally draining work who often need some form of care themselves is a recipe for disaster. Decent people can become cunts under enough stress. That is what care work is.

 

[BristolEcho]

Undervaluing people working long hours who do heavy emotionally draining work who often need some form of care themselves is a recipe for disaster. Decent people can become cunts under enough stress. That is what care work is.

I know what care/support work is as I've worked in it for most of my adult life. So have many of my close friends, and yet we manage not to abuse the people that we are meant to help.

In my experience abuse comes from badly lead environments with managers that have are not qualified for their role.

It also comes from environments where the people that we work with are not seen as equal. It becomes an "us and them" environment.

They are just being difficult.

They have "X" condition and that makes them difficult .

They won't comply with what we/social worker/fmaily/socetiy wants them to do.

They earn more money on benefits than I do. (This one particularly pisses me off.)

In the last place that I worked they treated the staff amazing and they abused the client. I believe this to be a deliberate ploy. Keep the staff happy and they won't notice how we let down the people we are meant to be supporting.

None of the things you have listed can excuse or explain abuse. I flat out reject it.

 

[Shechemite]

“They earn more money on benefits than I do.”

This one comes up. A lot.

 

[IC3D]

Any undervalued workforce will perform badly.

 

[BristolEcho]

“They earn more money on benefits than I do.”

This one comes up. A lot.

It makes my skin crawl. That's a problem with your pay and the manager. Also ignors the reasons why someone is entitled to benefits.

Any undervalued workforce will perform badly.

It does not excuse abuse though.

 

[BristolEcho]

Or explain abuse for that matter. I hate my boss and the system due to the undervaluing of our work. It won't result in me abusing the people I work with. Of course I might make mistakes along the way, say the wrong thing etc, I am only human. Abuse is different though and cannot be excused through economics.

 

[IC3D]

It makes my skin crawl. That's a problem with your pay.
It does not excuse abuse though.

What's the problem pointing out your pay is less than dole or sick?

You'd get shit cars if Ford payed minimum wage so you get shit care.

 

[BristolEcho]

What's the problem pointing out your pay is less than dole or sick?

You'd get shit cars if Ford payed minimum wage so you get shit care.

Why should people that aren't well enough to work be expected to have a low standard of earning?

I hope you're not a care or support worker going by your last statement. It's not the people that pay who get the shit care, it's the people that you are working with. The people who pay us are getting the profit and anger should be directed at them.

 

[8ball]

It makes my skin crawl. That's a problem with your pay and the manager. Also ignors the reasons why someone is entitled to benefits.

It does not excuse abuse though.

Well the idea about benefits was that it was never meant to pay more than working.
And if work paid properly and benefits were decent that would be fine.

 

[IC3D]

Why should workers expect a shit standard of living? There's a lot of money being made but currently at the paygrade it's it you'll get bad quality work.

 

[8ball]

Why should workers expect a shit standard of living?

Because the cunts in control have got it all sewn up.

 

[BristolEcho]

Why should workers expect a shit standard of living? There's a lot of money being made but currently at the paygrade it's it you'll get bad quality work.

Why are you using that as an excuse for abuse though?

I can for example not be as proactive about general duties. I might refuse overtime and I won't be pushed into doing extra out of obligation. If does not excuse shit care and obvious abuse.

 

[Shechemite]

Or maybe, the shit conditions of staff and the shit conditions of service users are part of the same struggle. Solidarity and all that.

 

[IC3D]

Or maybe, the shit conditions of staff and the shit conditions of service users are part of the same struggle. Solidarity and all that.

Yes I believe that

 

[BristolEcho]

Or maybe, the shit conditions of staff and the shit conditions of service users are part of the same struggle. Solidarity and all that.

Exactly. So blame should be pushed towards managers and service providers. We also should not use their failings to excuse abuse which is what I'm reading here.

 

[8ball]

Yes I believe that

When every corporate lawyer has been replaced by an algorithm, we will still need people to look after the old. There's a reckoning coming.

 

[IC3D]

The discussion might be more constructive exploring why care work is entirely non union and why a proliferation of private companies thrive on it, taking workers money and providing inadequate services

 

[BristolEcho]

The discussion might be more constructive exploring why care work is entirely non union and why a proliferation of private companies thrive on it, taking workers money and providing inadequate services

It's intentional. The idea that care and support work is seen as unskilled is the perfect narrative for the industry/government to take for its underfunding. Care work has traditionally been undertaken by marganilised groups of people which might go some way to explaining why that narrative exists in the first place.

 

[8ball]

It's intentional. The idea that care and support work is seen as unskilled is the perfect narrative for the industry/government to take for its underfunding. Care work has traditionally been undertaken by marganilised groups of people which might go some way to explaining why that narrative exists in the first place.

What is seen as "skilled" or "unskilled" always comes with a political undercurrent.

 

[BristolEcho]

What is seen as "skilled" or "unskilled" always comes with a political undercurrent.

Of course. There is no such thing as unskilled work anyway. It's purely used as something to elevate workers against eachother.

 

[8ball]

Of course. There is no such thing as unskilled work anyway. It's purely used as something to elevate workers against eachother.

Hmmm.

Pondering the full implications of this, some of which seem iffy at first glance...

 

[BristolEcho]

Hmmm.

Pondering the full implications of this, some of which seem iffy at first glance...

That's how I feel from following recent narratives. Feel free to say which bits feel iffy as I am open to other ideas.

 

[BristolEcho]

Maybe that can be taken to another thread. My main reason for speaking out in this thread was the idea that poor pay and working conditions can be excused for a poor level of support or abuse.

 

[8ball]

That's how I feel from following recent narratives. Feel free to say which bits feel iffy as I am open to other ideas.

I think there are different levels of skill when it comes to paid work, but I think the way the distinctions play out is influenced by a lot of structural shit.

For example, objectively speaking, I can clean my own toilet, and there are people they get in to clean the toilets at work when we could do it ourselves. However, if one of us keels over with a cardiac blood clot, there are very few people with the skills to sort that out, and I think that is going to be a contraint of the kind that you can't magic away with a different political system.

 

[BristolEcho]

I think there are different levels of skill when it comes to paid work, but I think the way the distinctions play out is influenced by a lot of structural shit.

For example, objectively speaking, I can clean my own toilet, and there are people they get in to clean the toilets at work when we could do it ourselves. However, if one of us keels over with a cardiac blood clot, there are very few people with the skills to sort that out, and I think that is going to be a contraint of the kind that you can't magic away with a different political system.

As I said above I believe this to be a debate for another thread.

For society to operate we need people to do a wide range of jobs that take a wide range of skills. A surgeon couldn't do their role without having someone that can make sure that the workplace meets a certain standard of spec. Cleaners are the perfect example of disrespected worker. Many don't realise they are there, but if they weren't we would notice pretty fucking quickly.

When your surgeon comes out of the surgery do they want to go into a toilet and clean it himself? Or do they want to go into an already clean toilet?

I saw a army recruitment video today aimed at people that work in supermarkets. It was the perfect example of them exploring the feeling of not being valued and offering them a better chance in life.