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Can't wait! OrangeFest is almost here!!

Not too long back we had our first minister defend anti Muslim hate speech , and say he'd trust a Muslim to " go to the shop for him " , but apparently little else . So that's the top of the tree speaking , not the lumpen disadvantaged .

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Then we had that whole " fleg " malarkey . And a great deal of it was due to mainstream " polite " unionism whipping up the knuckle daggers in order to go after the Alliance party who were eating into their vote .
It ended up with chinese born MLA Anna Lo announcing she was quitting both politics and the north after 40 years here .Too afraid for her own safety . She pointed out shed been here for decades and wondered out loud how frightening it must be for immigrants who've only arrived who know virtually nobody .

And she pretty much said what I'm saying . The union with the uk itself is what's at the heart of this . It's the dynamic which encourages unionists to live constantly in the past and to maintain their siege mentality . It's what breeds sectarianism , and now racism .
The union and partition , orangism and loyalism is based on tribal triumphalism and a refusal to live in peace and equality with your neighbours . non loyalists moving into loyalist turf are simply disloyal . So out they go . None of this can be properly challenged when the political dynamics of the union are in place . The union has to go for real social change to ever stand a chance . The " carnival of reaction " that James Connolly warned about in relation to partition is simply far to strong and pervasive to ever permit a progressive alternative .
 
Just waiting for some gobshite to pop in and post about "there is racism on both sides".

Where's the small-cocked halfwit revol when you need him?
 
LiamO said:
Just waiting for some gobshite to pop in and post about "there is racism on both sides".

Where's the small-cocked halfwit revol when you need him?
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a hell of a lot of it is ignorance. just depends really whether that's ignorance cause they've never seen how bad this shit is, or ignorance by choice.

but this stuff you're talking about here really is shit. shocking even after having spent a fair bit of time looking at some of the past shit.

Casually Red said:
The union with the uk itself is what's at the heart of this . It's the dynamic which encourages unionists to live constantly in the past and to maintain their siege mentality . It's what breeds sectarianism , and now racism .
The union and partition , orangism and loyalism is based on tribal triumphalism and a refusal to live in peace and equality with your neighbours . non loyalists moving into loyalist turf are simply disloyal . So out they go . None of this can be properly challenged when the political dynamics of the union are in place . The union has to go for real social change to ever stand a chance . The " carnival of reaction " that James Connolly warned about in relation to partition is simply far to strong and pervasive to ever permit a progressive alternative .
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the more i read, the more i understand, and the more I agree with this.
 
How deep does it run? Imagine the uproar if a British politician came out with this ...

"It is frightfully hard to explain to white people that if you give Pakistanis a good job and a good house they will live like white people because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Pakistani is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Pakistanis with due consideration and kindness they will live like white people in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"

You could not even imagine it, could you? Not in the 20th Century anyway. Not even from Enoch Powell in his heyday. And yet in May 1969 the (very recently ex-) Prime Minister of Norn Iron made exactly this lament in an interview with the Belfast Telegraph...


"It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consideration and kindness they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"

And why was he lamenting? Because he had been driven from office, by his own, because of such views.

Good! any right thinking person might conclude. Until, that is, you realise he was driven out because his views were seen as too liberal and thus dangerous and radical.

That is the political pedigree and heritage of today's Unionists. Still the most lumpen are called out to the streets on the whim of their Masters. Then, when the mission to beat the taigs back into place is accomplished, when they roll over like good doggies to get their bellies rubbed... they get kicked by their masters instead. Just as they always have.

It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
 
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The loyalist mentality is best summed up in their slogan " not an inch " . That essentially means not giving up an inch of turf . That's what's at the heart of the parades dispute , the housing shortages in catholic areas and the racism in loyalist areas . They're territorial to the point of frenzied ness . Giving up an inch of a parade...defeat. Giving up an inch of territory..defeat .
They expelled and ghettoised Catholics to secure the union . Now they see their socially cleansed areas ...the loyalist citadels.." flooded " by immigrants .catholics in the case of poles . That means there's non loyalists living there..the solid front of loyalism undermined . Which means the union could be endangered . this is the same Belfast were perfectly good housing stock was actually demolished by the authorities to keep one small enclave " Protestant " , while just across the road hundreds of catholic families were in homes that should have been demolished .

Poverty , poor education etc play a role . But ultimately it's the union itself at the heart of this . Won't change until the union is gone . Sadly though for the nationalist politicians working the same rotten system every racist attack by loyalists is almost a brownie point . " themmuns" at it again . Opportunity for smugness . While they themselves legitimise the very system and set of rules which cause it in the first place . Hence a challenge is needed . Not platitudes , slogans and sound bites .
 
LiamO said:
How deep does it run? Imagine the uproar if a British politician came out with this ...

"It is frightfully hard to explain to white people that if you give Pakistanis a good job and a good house they will live like white people because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Pakistani is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Pakistanis with due consideration and kindness they will live like white people in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"

You could not even imagine it, could you? Not in the 20th Century anyway. Not even from Enoch Powell in his heyday. And yet in May 1969 the (very recently ex-) Prime Minister of Norn Iron made exactly this lament in an interview with the Belfast Telegraph...


"It is frightfully hard to explain to Protestants that if you give Roman Catholics a good job and a good house they will live like Protestants because they will see neighbours with cars and television sets; they will refuse to have eighteen children. But if a Roman Catholic is jobless, and lives in the most ghastly hovel he will rear eighteen children on National Assistance. If you treat Roman Catholics with due consideration and kindness they will live like Protestants in spite of the authoritative nature of their Church"

And why was he lamenting? Because he had been driven from office, by his own, because of such views.

Good! any right thinking person might conclude.

Til you realise he was driven out because his views were seen as too liberal and thus dangerous and radical.

That is the political pedigree of today's Unionists. Still the most lumpen are called out to the streets on the whim of their Masters. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic.
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as it has always been.

And even if the Irish, who have forced their way into other occupations, should become more civilised, enough of the old habits would cling to them to have a strong degrading influence upon their English companions in toil, especially in view of the general effect of being surrounded by the Irish. For when, in almost every great city, a fifth or a quarter of the workers are Irish, or children of Irish parents, who have grown up among Irish filth, no one can wonder if the life, habits, intelligence, moral status—in short, the whole character of the working-class assimilates a great part of the Irish characteristics. On the contrary, it is easy to understand how the degrading position of the English workers, engendered by our modern history, and its immediate consequences, has been still more degraded by the presence of Irish competition.
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LiamO said:
Is that quote from Freddy, the Manc?

I think he changed his views soon after,
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yep. one i had on hand.

and yes. I believe he came to realize shit conditions were forced upon the irish and not solely a result of flaws in the celtic character.

I've got a collection of similarly delightful descriptions somewhere on this machine that I dug out of political literature from the home rule debates. but i have no idea where it's hidden or what i labelled it:facepalm:
 
toggle said:
yep. one i had on hand.

and yes. I believe he came to realize shit conditions were forced upon the irish and not solely a result of flaws in the celtic character.

I've got a collection of similarly delightful descriptions somewhere on this machine that I dug out of political literature from the home rule debates. but i have no idea where it's hidden or what i labelled it:facepalm:
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A German mate of mine found a book that had been suppressed by the DDR authorities which claimed Fred had been providing safe houses to the Fenians . And that both his female companions were active Fenians themselves .
 
Casually Red said:
A German mate of mine found a book that had been suppressed by the DDR authorities which claimed Fred had been providing safe houses to the Fenians . And that both his female companions were active Fenians themselves .
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didn't reply last night, cause i wanted to look that up. cause one of the people on my irish history course mentioned something. knowing he did read it, i'd suspect his knowledge of that came from Peter Beresford Ellis's history of the irish working class.

but a fair few other books do mention various bits. and there's some interesting stuff I remember digging out of the collected works that has since been removed from marxist internet archive. certainly enough to call into question how some on the left believe there is support in these texts for their rejection of discussion on the national question(s).
 
toggle said:
didn't reply last night, cause i wanted to look that up. cause one of the people on my irish history course mentioned something. knowing he did read it, i'd suspect his knowledge of that came from Peter Beresford Ellis's history of the irish working class.

but a fair few other books do mention various bits. and there's some interesting stuff I remember digging out of the collected works that has since been removed from marxist internet archive. certainly enough to call into question how some on the left believe there is support in these texts for their rejection of discussion on the national question(s).
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There was stuff I was looking at recently that , although they didn't link the 2 things , mentioned that Engels partner helped shelter prisoners at the centre of the Manchester martyrs episode...during their partnership . And also that Engels himself frequently rented out multiple properties in Manchester clandestinely . You can see obvious grounds to draw conclusions from there .
 
Casually Red said:
There was stuff I was looking at recently that , although they didn't link the 2 things , mentioned that Engels partner helped shelter prisoners at the centre of the Manchester martyrs episode...during their partnership . And also that Engels himself frequently rented out multiple properties in Manchester clandestinely . You can see obvious grounds to draw conclusions from there .
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don't tell me you were looking at something interesting, you git. tell me what you were looking at.
 
Partition was seen as a good idea at the time and then the north was ignored churchil was ready to give it away thats how many fucks UK gave about northern ireland, even at the height of the troubles it was never a priority for any of the major political partys.

thats why the spooks got to do what they did few cared and those that did had no better ideas.
Not that republican or irish goverment hand any practical ideas. The loyalists were poundshop white rhodesians unfortunately not far enough away to be ignored :(
 
Tuesday's Irish News carried nearly a full page of quaint 'cultural-expression' Bonfires before they were lit. They were all adorned with (some actually completely draped in) Irish flags, election posters - Sinn Fein ones obviously, but also SDLP and even Alliance (Cheese and Wine Party) ones - and threats to taigs. One, in Antrim, had a full montage of effigies apparently representing the 'IRA Army Council' and name-checking a young(ish) Sinn Fein Councillor who is simply far too young to have been in the IRA, never mind a member of the Army Council.

At least last years epidemic of decorating bonfires with hundreds-of-years-old holy statues - stolen from both inside and outside Chapels and from graveyards seems to have abated. Or maybe Parishes have taken to uprooting them and placing them under lock and key for the duration.

At this point it is worth reminding ourselves that many of these bonfires are part-funded by the local Councils. Yes, british people, you read that right. Your taxpayers money is not only spent on Policing but actually subsidising these little hate-fests!

But this next bit is an absolute cracker.

When questioned by Journalists as to whether prosecutions might arise from these - given that the grant applications/safety plans etc all have to have named organisers and named persons of responsibility assigned for various functions, and that hundreds of photos and videos have been published through print, TV and social media...

PSNI Assistant Chief Constable Stephen Martin replied (apparently straight-faced) "These items were destroyed on the bonfires and it is unlikely that there will be any evidential materiel to progress."

Easy to imagine a senior british police officer coming out with that and getting away with it, isn't it?

"Northern Ireland" is, indeed, quite clearly "as british as Finchley"...
 
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Is there no end to their classiness?

http://www.irishnews.com/news/2015/07/17/news/men-racially-abused-at-orange-parade-195809/

"TWO men who say they were racially abused in central Belfast by a group watching an Orange parade have hit out at the police response.

Solaimane Hayda (32) and his friend, who did not wish to be named, told The Irish News they were confronted on Royal Avenue at around 6pm on Monday evening by three bystanders who were watching a returning parade.

The group, comprised of a woman in her mid-twenties and two men, one in his 30s and the other a pensioner, hurled racial abuse at the two friends as they passed a bus stop opposite Belfast Central Library.

Mr Hayda, who is originally from Morocco, has been living in Belfast for five years, while his friend, a Portuguese national, has been a resident in the city for 14 years.

Mr Hayda said: "They were eating sandwiches and watching the parade. They started shouting abuse, calling us black b***rds and Pakis, and telling us 'we don’t want you in this country'."

"They began kicking out at us and trying to punch us. They chased after us and we ran up North Street to get away."

According to Mr Hayda, police officers both in a nearby vehicle and standing on the road witnessed the events, but an officer who intervened "just told us to keep moving on" and did not detain any of the group who had initiated the racial abuse."
 
unrepentant85 said:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...geman-charged-with-attempted-murder-1.2285843

Is bail usually granted for attempted murder suspects?
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He will eventually have his charges dropped to much more insignificant ones.. and his defence will be that the crowd were shouting at him (one man apparently kicked his wing mirror) and that he hwas in genuine fear for his life... despite the presence of maybe 100 police officers in full riot gear in the immediate vicinity.

No doubt he will claim that he had absolutely no idea his presence in that specific place, at that specific time might be a) noted and b) considered a little provocative... despite him being a weekly visitor to this place...

2013-08-26-twaddellnorthwide.jpg


... for the last three years... and a member of a Parading Board.

I wonder if Gerry Adams drove up the Shankill on the Twelfth, got spotted and drove into a crowd of loyalists would this be deemed a credible defence. My bet is he gets off with a smack on the wrist.
 
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LiamO said:
Your taxpayers money is not only spent on Policing but actually subsidising these little hate-fests!
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I've never been but I point to NI when people give me the schtick about how we live in a free and fair democracy. Look there. Thats the reality of so-called civil society. Its as dystopian as anything my favourite writers could imagine.
 
Must admit that LAD site has given me a few laughs recently despite the depressing background.

And also echo the sentiment above, very enlightening, even for a Free State citizen such as myself. I don't think most people realise how horrendous it is.
 
LiamO said:
At this point it is worth reminding ourselves that many of these bonfires are part-funded by the local Councils. Yes, british people, you read that right. Your taxpayers money is not only spent on Policing but actually subsidising these little hate-fests!

.
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Is that how the pallets are paid for? I worked in a hardware store years ago where we had to keep aside any blue pallets that came in or we could be charged for them. Sure it was £10 or £15 per pallet.
 
unrepentant85 said:
Is that how the pallets are paid for? I worked in a hardware store years ago where we had to keep aside any blue pallets that came in or we could be charged for them. Sure it was £10 or £15 per pallet.
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Put it this way , if the local UVF and UDA unit called round to a business looking for donation of pallets for the community cultural event , what do you think the response of that business might be ? The choice would be little more than whether they're burned on or off the premises . Many of them are also simply stolen . The LAD blog highlighted some Facebook chatter where a user by the name of " Alice Dowson "...whom LAD insist is former BNP activist Jim Dowson who's banned from using the Internet as part of his bail conditions ...talks about the easy availability of pallets in a section of Belfast docks .

As regards the community funding that's spent on all sorts of sundries . Often the flags .
 
I was thinking the other night, that about 11 or 12 years ago I had a student in Belfast who told me that here Da had been a lifelong Orangeman but had left the organization in disgust after seeing what he called the "scum" who had joined the order after Drumcree.
 
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