Humberto
Relax
Hang on, you've just admitted 'yours' did, so give it a rest
Can't wait! OrangeFest is almost here!!
- Thread starter LiamO
- Start date
Hang on, you've just admitted 'yours' did, so give it a rest
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
As I said, they loathed the Church. Pius made things slightly more convenient for them in terms of propagandising to Catholics in the US and South America, but he couldn't have helped counteract hundreds of years of conditioning to put Church before state, even if he'd wanted to.
Who are 'yours'?
WTF has shit that went on in the early 70;s got to do with what these loons are at now in 2015 - nearly 20 years since the ceasefire?
Humberto
Relax
Cos there are sick fucks on BOTH sides, or wasn't Omagh recent enough to count?
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Omagh was no more sicker than an everyday "oops" over Baghdad or Belgrade
Good luck getting a public enquiry into that murky shit though . Families have no chance . And have expended their usefulness since demanding one . You don't hear of them any more. Wrong questions .
Good luck getting a public enquiry into that murky shit though . Families have no chance . And have expended their usefulness since demanding one . You don't hear of them any more. Wrong questions .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
I'm not sure what " yours " means . But what did they do. ?
Humberto
Relax
Yeah I know they have been fucked over completely. British have blood on their hands on that one. Point was there was sick fucks prepared to do that and most likely still are.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
Had presumed this was some joyriding bonfire burner kid off his head or something, mind boggling that it was a bandsmen.
Amazing level of restraint / dignity / discipline shown from the Repub community amongst all this shite .
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cantsin
Well-Known Member
( Am guessing that last bit made some sense to you at least in the wee hrs )
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Yus
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
We had a couple of dodgy incidents in Belfast. We had to beat a hasty retreat out of one loyalist area when someone appeared to clock the reg of the car (hired in Dublin so Irish plates), gave us a murderous look and immediately started making phone calls.
Horrible, scary fuckers.
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cantsin
Well-Known Member
Sounds like quite the mini trip - had you gone there a bit more ambivalent about the whole thing, ie : did the ( however ltd ) first hand experience change yr mind / views at all ?
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I grew up here in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, with pretty much zero real knowledge of Irish politics. We only really heard about it when the IRA blew something up, and I remember as a kid in the 70s bomb scares were a way of life. You'd get evacuated from some department store and everyone would be out on the street moaning about the "bloody IRA" and what should be done to them. Even just before I went over to see Liam and Casually Red, I didn't know much, and if I'm honest, I still don't completely get it.
The difference was that whilst always accepting that there'd be two sides to any coin, I hadn't ever had the opportunity to speak to people who'd been so directly involved in any conflict and "on the other side". Liam and I spent a seriously engrossing afternoon with one fella who'd been banged up in Long Kesh for bomb making (he was doing 20 years, iirc) and only released as part of the GFA. An absolutely fascinating bloke who was more than happy to trade questions over copious beers and whisky, and was eloquent, engaging, and thoughtful; whereas the only overtly political loyalist I met over there (the geezer at the "peace camp") was quite clearly a fucking moron. I asked the IRA chap about the bombings and he got out a photo album crammed full of pictures of Catholic homes and roads that'd been wrecked and blown-up by the British Army. So whilst not in any way condoning the tactics used by them, it reinforced the fact that the whole gig is far more complicated than the "IRA Murdering Scum!" headlines of my youth.
As far as the areas are concerned I far preferred spending time, and felt infinitely more welcome, with Liam and Red's lot in South Armagh's beautiful Bandit Country than those weirdos in East Belfast. As a British Asian growing up in London during peak-NF I still get a bit nervous around seas of union flags!
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kalidarkone
Bringing YOU round.....
My dad is from East Belfast (lived in England since the early 60's)
I went over a few weeks ago ( first time since 1975) wanted to catch up with my aunty and since her husband had died, I was happy to do so because my only memory of him at 6 was this horrible man that proudly let me hold his gun. Yup he was RUC...
My partner and I arrived blissfully ignorant - my dad never spoke about any of it.... We stayed in the geltacht area near the falls road. We did an amazing taxi tour, was with the guy for 3 hours....emerged in shock, hairs up on the back of our necks. I'm wondering why my dad never educated me?
It changed our little holiday, as once I had the slightest understanding I felt pretty uncomfortable - being black.. Which I hardly ever feel... and it was fine in Belfast, kind of... but once we went further north into the country - just got a weird vibe...
Met some lovely people. But Yeh total fuckin eye opener! Got a big convo due with my dad...
I went over a few weeks ago ( first time since 1975) wanted to catch up with my aunty and since her husband had died, I was happy to do so because my only memory of him at 6 was this horrible man that proudly let me hold his gun. Yup he was RUC...
My partner and I arrived blissfully ignorant - my dad never spoke about any of it.... We stayed in the geltacht area near the falls road. We did an amazing taxi tour, was with the guy for 3 hours....emerged in shock, hairs up on the back of our necks. I'm wondering why my dad never educated me?
It changed our little holiday, as once I had the slightest understanding I felt pretty uncomfortable - being black.. Which I hardly ever feel... and it was fine in Belfast, kind of... but once we went further north into the country - just got a weird vibe...
Met some lovely people. But Yeh total fuckin eye opener! Got a big convo due with my dad...
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The only hassle you'll get in the catholic areas is from thieves and anti socials ,who make everyones life a misery . I was in a pub with a fair sized republican clientele just last week . An absolute wanker tried to give a guy some grief over his English accent . 2 minutes later the barman had him round the side and firmly told to fuck away off and get out . End of story . Nobody could be arsed with it .
What marks the loyalist areas out more than anything is their depressing insularness . I genuinely feel sorry for the people who have to live there . A severe lack of aspiration and inspiration , under the control of the likes of the UDA, this made up cartoon Britishness that's the most unbritish thing going. There's wankers on our side for sure but Christ almighty . It's fucking hopeless for that lot . All that bullshit about flags bonfires and marches ...they're obsessed with it . And when a catholic area tells them to keep that bigotted , triumphalistic nonsense away from their homes and their kids they just go ballistic .
That crap has to be challenged and properly dealt with . Not pandered to and glorified as " culture" . It's a bloody sickness , an affliction . It's beyond depressing thinking that entire swathes of the country are just doomed to live under that cloud .
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Well, they may be weird, but they've got into the festive spirit of the season by announcing that Peelers and Parades Commission people are now legitimate targets:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ommission-as-legitimate-targets-31375831.html
Hmmm, actually you're right that's pretty fucking weird.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...ommission-as-legitimate-targets-31375831.html
Hmmm, actually you're right that's pretty fucking weird.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
I absolutely understand.
I haven't "felt black" for years but people don't have to be obviously racist for you to get the odd twinge that something's not quite pukka. The eyes looking away; the whispered conversations that you're not supposed to notice; brusque service in pubs, shops and bars; or the odd questionable comment.
In South Armagh there was none of that shit. I danced with Liam's wife and her mates in Crossmaglen, and visited some of his dodgy looking pals out in the sticks and never once "felt black", iykwim. They just, nicely, took the piss out of me for being a Brit (more specifically a Cockney) and bought me drinks.
Conversely, we got run out of East Belfast! We likely asked for it. Three strangers (one of who's a paki) in an Irish plated car, swooping around taking pictures, was probably taking the piss a bit.
Deareg wouldn't even get out of the car around Ardoyne but Liam's a bit of an 'up-for-it' cunt who I was happy to follow at 50 yards whilst the engine was running.
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Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
loyalists are weird not sure how you can challenge that shit its not rational and they aint listening.
Anything to actually question it would have to come from inside and anyone capable of doing that has got the fuck out of dodge
An end to referring to this garbage as " culture " would be a start . That doesn't have to happen from inside loyalist. It would involve non unionists getting out of the mutually beneficial sectarian game though . The nationalist politicians made a trade off on that one for their own ends . It all needs challenged .
And most of this trouble is caused by bloody drunks but the powers that be treat them like they're Isis or something . Yet barely a month ago they arrested a republican in north Belfast for the non existent charge of " interfering with a lamp post " .he was putting up a suicide awareness poster at the time . Had he been sticking up swastikas and confederate flags he'd have been perfectly fine . And that's the truth of it .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
I'd lay any money that's a few cranks with deactivated kit . If you look closely every single one of those weapons has been arranged so the barrels are obscured or out of picture . Which makes me suspect they're plugged . They've a penchant for that stuff . Last year they were floating about twaddell in army surplus land rovers with a deactivated machine gun on them . Probably the same bozos .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
There's some pretty depressing remarks from tourists on that trip advisor thing , complaints of a nasty atmosphere , stench of bonfire smoke, dodgy looking types bedecked with union jacks , can't wait to get out of Belfast etc . That's from a hotel on their so called " golden mile " , in the city centre at the height of the summer . Days hotel , just beside sandy row . Poor sods .
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
This sort of demonstrates the different dynamics at play . Different " dissident " republican marches through the same part of the city
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Ku klux klan fleg east Belfast
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
They really hate a whole lot of people, don't they? Is there a way to infect all flutes with polonium or something?
likesfish
You can't park here sir
Cunts the lot of them the little shits threating to crucify a Catholic weren't even alive in the troubles.
You have to feel sorry for the stupid bastards on the wrong side history disposed by the English I actually think the majority of English people who know anything of NI have only utter contempt for the loyalists ,
You have to feel sorry for the stupid bastards on the wrong side history disposed by the English I actually think the majority of English people who know anything of NI have only utter contempt for the loyalists ,
toggle
wobbly
there's still enough of middle england that accepts loyalist bullshit at face value. they still believe the kind of crap i was raised to believe, that loyalists were ordinary decent folk pushed into using violence to protect themselves by dangerous republicans. IMo, at best, we get the lot who will moan that they are all as bad as each other and britain should wash their hands of the lot of them. cause this shit isn't talked about enough. nor is the fact that the beliefs that cause this shit were a deliberate creation to maintain a power structure that benefited a wealthy few, British, then the 'big house unionism' as discussed by liam and CR. i don't think though that cutting that support by talking more about the shit they do will make much difference.
Casually Red
tomorrow belongs to me
The only Tory who I'll give any credit for anything was that shadow minister Quentin Davies . During that Holy Cross girls school siege he , tbf, put his money were his mouth was and personally accompanied the children through the gauntlet of hate . He came away just stunned , couldn't believe people could stoop so low . He was genuinely sickened and made no attempt to hide it or point to any vequivalence .
To top it all off one of the loyalists called him a Fenian scum and told him to go back to the free state
But the fall out from that thing , the exposure of the rotten hatred at the heart of loyalism amongst sections of the English public did scare them . Both the dup and the paramilitary leaders are terrified at something like Holy cross ever happening again . They know that exposure could prove politically fatal . Right now Belfast in particular is without doubt the race hate capital of the " UK " . Last year they were talking about an average of 3 race hate crimes per day . Reported ones that is . It's reckoned 80 percent go unreported . For a place as small as Belfast that's pretty shocking . And the fact is most of these crimes are orchestrated by loyalist paramilitary factions . And we know from the collusion thread their eaten clean through by police agents . A blind eyes being turned to this . They know who the ringleaders are . The ringleaders work for the state , simple as .
Hatred of Irish Catholics isn't a culture , it's a social disease . Other forms of hatred and racism are its natural bedfellows , a logical consequence of the same rotten position . Pandering to orangism and loyalism is to pander to hate . Racism is a logical consequence of the gfa . Which was meant to legitimise and thereby manage sectarian hate . Rather than challenge the root cause of the hatred . Left completely unchallenged , and indeed glorified as " culture " there simply wasn't going to be any other reaction to the arrival of foreign immigrants other than the one we are witnessing .
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