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British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

Rob Ray said:
Yes. Please point to where these hypocritical lefties declared an unwillingness to consider the cases of repentant former white male fascists who had been groomed at a young age.


Has Iraq shown any interest in doing so?
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So you haven't read this thread. Iraq offered to try all ISIS captives 2 or 3 years ago. It's how the French and other nations have dealt with the problem.

There's also the prospect of her being tried in Syria (Kurdish controlled Rojava) which she is fighting against.
 
If you feel you can't ask for a clarification about a thing in the middle of a conversation because it'd "expose your lack of knowledge" I feel deeply sorry for you. But as you well know, I'm not "falling back" on anything because my opening post was specifically about you calling lefties hypocrites, and the ask about courts was the aside.
 
Spymaster said:
My focus is not to see her hanged, although I wouldn't lose much sleep if she was. It's to point out the enormous (though totally predictable) double standards coming from "ulra-lefty" types, as you put it. Many posters here are totally convinced that she's a victim, despite the fact that she travelled 3000 miles to join a genocide cult; and that the government's stripping of her citizenship was illegal, which it very clearly wasnt. Change the sex, colour, and probable motivations and I promise you, this thread would look very different. There's also a huge arrogance in the notion that only a British court could deliver justice. Why? The crimes of the organisation that she joined were primarily committed in Syria and Iraq, where she was ultimately detained. If I was arrested for the murder of a French citizen in France, would you argue that I should be sent back to London to face British justice?

She may have been coerced into joining IS. She also may have wholeheartedly sought to join them and involve herself in their pogrom.
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So, whataboutery then.
 
Athos said:
If it happened, yes she'd have been a British citizen in the UK. But, even if it did, that wouldn't necessarily render the HS's decision unlawful - a groomed person can still represent a risk to national security. Essentially, to succeed in this appeal (on that ground - it's one of a few*) she'll have to show that the possibility of grooming was a relevant factor that the HS unreasonably failed to take into account - quite a high bar.

* see para 11 of the attached for a summary of the current grounds.
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Indeed. But surely that would need to be decided in a British Court, with legal defence, etc.
 
Yes, I know there's leftish hypocrisy on this. Most of the rest of your post revolves around that. Is the hypocrisy of some people on the left the main issue here for you? If yes, that's a bit sad.
 
Anyway, we are not armed with the background here are we ? We know she left at 15, her father appears to have reported her activities to the popo and school beforehand. How nuch earlier I don’t know. We have no idea when she fell for the lure of IS. Surely this is rather important- if she had been at it for say 18 months, then she would have 13 or 14 . Not the assured grown up that seems to be the meme of the minute.

Meh
 
Shouldn't be difficult to point to where these hypocritical lefties declared an unwillingness to consider the cases of repentant former white male fascists who had been groomed at a young age, then, should it.

I mean fuck Spymaster how hard is it just to agree maybe not all lefties are a Daily Mail stereotype, are you really that insecure/dogmatic you can't admit you made a silly generalisation? Did you really need to sneer and dissemble across 2+ pages of forum thread instead?
 
There's no example of a white boy losing his British citizenship for joining a fascist group, so there won't be direct evidence either way. At most, people can speculate, based on their experience of this place, including the sympathy this particular (islamo)fascist has received versus the usual aproach to more 'traditional' fascists. But it's a moot/non point in the scheme of things.
 
Magnus McGinty said:
This was in the news fairly recently so presumably we should be able to find discussions of a similar nature with similar sentiments as afforded Begum.

Youngest British terrorist sentenced for neo-Nazi manuals stash | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk www.cps.gov.uk
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I do think his age means he should receive a different punishment to an adult and that it should be treated as a safeguarding issue (ie. what level of adult involvement was there in his behaviour and did adult behaviour put him in danger) as well as a criminal one. But no trafficking and no forced marriage so not sure how comparable it really is.
 
At most, people can speculate
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Yes, because in fact it's not an example of people on here enthusiastically calling for someone to be permanently denied citizenship and any chance of rehabilitation, is it. And fwiw, I absolutely think a 13-year-old moron shouldn't be followed round his whole life on that stuff if he's renounced fascism and gets on with things - hell I knew at least two "nazi" edgelords when I was a teenager, one's now a pub landlord and the other ended up in the diplomatic service, both are reasonably decent people. But please, do carry on about ULTra-LEfTiE DoubLE STANdARds.

Seriously the idea that people can change given the right circumstances is anarchism (and socialism) 101, people who don't think that wouldn't be hypocrites so much as they'd be ideologically off piste. Calling that out I'd have no problem with – people often forget or betray principles in the moment – but talking about it as being a standard left hypocrisy is incoherent nonsense.
 
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maomao said:
I do think his age means he should receive a different punishment to an adult and that it should be treated as a safeguarding issue (ie. what level of adult involvement was there in his behaviour and did adult behaviour put him in danger) as well as a criminal one. But no trafficking and no forced marriage so not sure how comparable it really is.
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Rob Ray was asking for specific examples that don't exist because, err, well I'm not sure. It wasn't stipulated that the circumstances had to be identical.
 
Rob Ray said:
Yes, because in fact it's not an example of people on here enthusiastically calling for someone to be permanently denied citizenship and any chance of rehabilitation, is it. And fwiw, I absolutely think a 13-year-old moron shouldn't be followed round his whole life on that stuff if he's renounced fascism and gets on with things - hell I knew at least two "nazi" edgelords when I was a teenager, one's a pub landlord and the other ended up in the diplomatic service, both are reasonably decent people. But please, do carry on about ULTra-LEfTiE DoubLE STANdARds.
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You quoted (part of) my words (whilst removing my name), then implied I've been talking about "ULTra-LEfTiE DoubLE STANdARds", when I've not made any such claims (that was Spymaster). :confused:
 
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