maomao
普費斯
Because all conversation about the right and wrong of the matter is corralled into a very narrow discussion of whether the state acted legally or not which. It's very boring.
British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'
- Thread starter hipipol
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
because of the way she has been demonised in a way that no one else with any possibility of returning has been. and then you look at the women who are undoubted british citizens as in the link i posted and they're being effectively left to rot. i think there's more than a hint of misogyny about the whole thingwhy do you think that ?
bimble
floofy
I don't think the press would be obsessed with a male Shamima in this way, and I don't think the male Shamima's thread would be this many pages on here either, but the idea that the government wouldn't have stripped male Shamima of his citizenship doesn't follow at all, imo.
eta i hate the ruling, i'm a person with the same conditional citizenship as her (just because my parents were born elsewhere) and i didn't know that and think its completely wrong. But i don't think its sexism.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i would be frankly astonished if there's not a man in the same position as regards nationality as her. 900 or so men went to fight for daesh and many of them must have had south asian heritage.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It might be boring but it's important.
bimble
floofy
yeah, i thought this had been done to others , like them. Has it not then?
eta oh it has, plenty. i think these are mostly men.
Who has been stripped of UK citizenship before Shamima Begum?
If Savid Javid’s plans go ahead, 19-year-old will join around 120 others since 2016
How is the government using its increased powers to strip British people of their citizenship? - Free Movement
Yesterday's judgment in Aziz & Ors v Secretary of State for the Home Department EWCA Civ 1884 saw the Court of Appeal uphold the Home Secretary's decision
www.freemovement.org.uk
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tbh no one knows except the home office and they aren't saying Number of people stripped of UK citizenship soars by 600% in a year
Indeed.
Number of people stripped of UK citizenship soars by 600% in a year
ETA: I understand others were actual dual citizens though, rather than solely British citizens who in theory could have but didn't actually have any other citizenship as per Begum.
Number of people stripped of UK citizenship soars by 600% in a year
ETA: I understand others were actual dual citizens though, rather than solely British citizens who in theory could have but didn't actually have any other citizenship as per Begum.
Last edited:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
from the 2019 link BillRiver and i have posted you'll see they don't say whether or how many people have had their citizenship withdrawn because they went to join daeshyeah, i thought this had been done to others , like them. Has it not then?
eta oh it has, plenty. i think these are mostly men.
Who has been stripped of UK citizenship before Shamima Begum?
If Savid Javid’s plans go ahead, 19-year-old will join around 120 others since 2016www.theguardian.com
How is the government using its increased powers to strip British people of their citizenship? - Free Movement
Yesterday's judgment in Aziz & Ors v Secretary of State for the Home Department EWCA Civ 1884 saw the Court of Appeal uphold the Home Secretary's decision
maomao
普費斯
Not particularly. If I'm discussing whether the UK state is racist or not I'm not particularly bothered about whether it's followed its own laws or not.
I would be, but that definitely wouldn't be all I'd be interested in with regard to that issue. Far from it.
maomao
普費斯
It's relevant, but if you'd read the whole thread you'd be bored of the fake lawyer and his faux objectivity by now.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
This is probably fine.
bimble
floofy
I see, but you suspect that none of these were Daes- joining men because the gov haven't disclosed so you reckon it's because she's female that this has happened to her? I remain unconvinced.
I think the others weren't solely British citizens.
I think a number of factors (her age, her sex, the fact she was a British schoolgirl, her children...) led to her getting more media attention than them.
I think the media attention led to a "court of public opinion" scenario based on minimal facts which influenced the UK government.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i am not surprised
she has been more harshly treated than anyone (bar john amery) who was involved with the british freikorps. i don't myself see what she has done is on a par with someone who took up arms for daesh: you do. i repeat, i am not surprised.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
It's not like Athos is constantly raising the issues though. Other people are. If people keep making the same mistakes, as BillRiver has done here, he's correct to point them out.
What mistake did I make?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh athos in speculation shocker again
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
There's no speculation about it. He's completely and demonstrably correct.
Athos
Well-Known Member
I agree. But you asked me what I think should happen, not what will.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
A good number of them got a Paveway through the windscreen. You can argue whether death is a more severe treatment than Begum has received, but let's not pretend that the others got 2 days cessation of chocolate ration.
bimble
floofy
i don't know what it is you're trying to say but if its that i'm probably a big misogynist okay.
maomao
普費斯
No, he's explained the legal reasoning behind the decision. He's also explained the difference between de jure and de facto citizenship. De facto meeting any reasonable person's definition of 'actually having a usable dual nationality' which Shamina Begum doesn't. The fact that they've rules on the basis of de jure citizenship is neither here nor there. It just makes you happy because it's what you want.
Athos
Well-Known Member
The court found that she did have Bangladeshi citizenship (automatically, by virtue of her parentage, as per Bangladeshi law).
And yet Bangladesh disagreed.
As I pointed out already and am happy to keep repeating.
Things really aren't as black & white as you seem to believe/wish they were.
Similar threads
