British IS schoolgirl 'wants to return home'

[Athos]

It's not just the legal case (yawn) that's up for discussion surely? It's the public perception and the press's obsession with this woman that's the real topic of discussion.

Yes, both aspects are significant.

 

[Jay Park]

there's women who are undoubted uk citizens in the camps who were trafficked and are told they've no chance of being brought back to the uk
View attachment 266227

https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/03052021

sick

 

[Athos]

there's women who are undoubted uk citizens in the camps who were trafficked and are told they've no chance of coming back to the uk
View attachment 266227

https://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/syria/03052021

You're moving the goalposts. You were comparing her case with those of men who've returned.

 

[Jay Park]

For the purposes of a legal challenge to a decision of the UK Home Secretary bought in the English courts, they're the only forum empowered to decide that point!

and they're an emblem of morality, right?

 

[Athos]

and they're an emblem of morality, right?

No. Pointing out SpookyFrank's mistake as to the legal power of English courts to decide such questions is in no way an endorsement of their morality.

 

[Pickman's model]

You're moving the goalposts. You were comparing her case with those of men who've returned.

yes, i was and now i am pointing out there are other women who should not have any obstacles placed in the way of their return, british women, who are basically being dumped in the camps. i thought you might have something other than 'does not compute' to say about this but i see that the slightest deviation from something about citizenship on this thread and you're flummoxed.

 

[maomao]

Oh god. Please not the objective legal expert schtick again.

 

[Pickman's model]

and they're an emblem of morality, right?

courts of law not courts of justice

 

[Athos]

yes, i was and now i am pointing out there are other women who should not have any obstacles placed in the way of their return, british women, who are basically being dumped in the camps. i thought you might have something other than 'does not compute' to say about this but i see that the slightest deviation from something about citizenship on this thread and you're flummoxed.

I'm not flummoxed at all. I'd like them to be tried locally.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'm not flummoxed at all. I'd like them to be tried locally.

what, women who have been trafficked and raped? what do you want them tried for?

e2a: it's ok, i've worked it out: adultery

 

[Spymaster]

Oh god. Please not the objective legal expert schtick again.

I don't know why you have such a problem with this. He's absolutely right.

 

[Athos]

what, women who have been trafficked and raped? what do you want them tried for?

Tried for any crimes of which they're suspected. If they've been coerced, they should be acquitted. Any British citizen who isn't suspected or who is acquitted ought to be able to return to the UK.

 

[Athos]

I don't know why you have such a problem with this. He's absolutely right.

Because its all he got.

 

[BillRiver]

Tried for any crimes of which they're suspected. If they've been coerced, they should be acquitted. Any British citizen who isn't suspected or who is acquitted ought to be able to return to the UK.

But where there is no possibility of fair trial so no one can be acquitted, what should happen then do you reckon?

 

[Pickman's model]

Tried for any crimes of which they're suspected. If they've been coerced, they should be acquitted. Any British citizen who isn't suspected or who is acquitted ought to be able to return to the UK.

but not i see those found guilty who have served their sentences. i wonder why not.

 

[Athos]

But where there is no possibility of fair trial so no one can be acquitted, what should happen then do you reckon?

Then it's incumbent on the international community to facilitate such fair trials.

 

[BillRiver]

Then it's incumbent on the intensively community to facilitate such fair trials.

Huh?

 

[Athos]

but not i see those found guilty who have served their sentences. i wonder why not.

I overlooked that group, but you're right - they should be allowed to return, too.

 

[Athos]

Huh?

Typo. Corrected.

 

[BillRiver]

Then it's incumbent on the international community to facilitate such fair trials.

In situations where that is not possible?

 

[Athos]

In situations where that is not possible?

Then it's a case of competing priorities, including public safety and principles of natural justice. I'm not sure where to draw the line; whether it's on a general basis, or case-by-case. But, broadly speaking, I'd tend towards bringing even dangerous people back rather than having them rot in limbo indefinitely.

 

[Pickman's model]

Then it's incumbent on the intensively community to facilitate such fair trials.

nothing in any of your posts about timely trials. nothing in your posts about helping people find witnesses who could offer either evidence of innocence or mitigation who in the ebb and flow of war and pandemic may have ended up far afield. not to mention that it may be difficult to find counsel in those parts of the world at the best of times. in a similar situation british courts would struggle to offer any genuine form of justice but i suggest it's going to be a mountain to climb for someone without any secondary education, relatives or indeed money in a foreign country in which she's been assaulted and imprisoned to manage to represent herself effectively.

 

[BillRiver]

Then it's a case of competing priorities, including public safety and principles of natural justice. I'm not sure where to draw the line; whether it's on a general basis, or case-by-case. But, generally speaking, I'd tend towards bringing even dangerous people back rather than having them rot in limbo indefinitely.

Then we agree, more or less.

 

[Athos]

nothing in any of your posts about timely trials. nothing in your posts about helping people find witnesses who could offer either evidence of innocence or mitigation who in the ebb and flow of war and pandemic may have ended up far afield. not to mention that it may be difficult to find counsel in those parts of the world at the best of times. in a similar situation british courts would struggle to offer any genuine form of justice but i suggest it's going to be a mountain to climb for someone without any secondary education, relatives or indeed money in a foreign country in which she's been assaulted and imprisoned to manage to represent herself effectively.

I think trials should be as timely as possible, and that British citizens should get legal aid and effective representation.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think trials should be as timely as possible, and that British citizens should get legal aid and effective representation.

is there legal aid available for trials abroad?

 

[bimble]

i'd say it's what she's got between her legs which really differentiates her from the fighters who've come back.

what makes you say that?

 

[Athos]

is there legal aid available for trials abroad?

If there's not currently, there's no reason why that can't be changed.

 

[Pickman's model]

what makes you say that?

because i think it's true

 

[Pickman's model]

If there's not currently, there's no reason why that can't be changed.

there isn't any aid for iraq or syria Legal aid

but i expect that'll be on the government's list of things to change just below the covid inquiry

 

[bimble]

because i think it's true

why do you think that ?