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BREXIT Crunch time (part 38) WTF is going to happen next?

Brexit crunch - WTF happens next?

  • Total voters
    150
  • Poll closed .
butchersapron said:
You're asking because you think the idea of the europan parliament having far righters in it is absurd. So absurd that it's worthy of mention as a brexiteers mad imagination. Yet now you find that there are indeed far-righters in it. Now what? What questions are you now asking yourself?
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I'm asking because this was said by a journalist.

Lupa said:
"There's an increase in hard right in the European parliament"
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... the breakdown of the EP is currently a majority of centrist parties. They're holding at the moment.
I'm just very surprised that she was adamant that the hard right was currently that strong...seeing as it's all still to play for? It's as if she sees it as a fait accompli...when there has not been an election yet.
 
Lupa said:
The Shinners? Sinn Fein you mean? They have 3 seats. They're centre left....never have been right wing.
The blue shirts? Are you referring to Fine Gael? They have 4 seats...centre right.

What's that got to do with some journalist stating that the European parliament was becoming more hard right?
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I think the Blue Shirts are just as reactionary as the Tories are - you think the Tories are hard right don't you? You wouldn't call them centre right would you?

Calling the Shinners centre left is nonsense to me, but I don't suppose we will agree on that.


Lupa said:
the breakdown of the EP is currently a majority of centrist parties. They're holding at the moment.
I'm just very surprised that she was adamant that the hard right was currently that strong...seeing as it's all still to play for? It's as if she sees it as a fait accompli...when there has not been an election yet.
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That's a very right wing conception of centrism.
 
Lupa said:
I'm asking because this was said by a journalist.



... the breakdown of the EP is currently a majority of centrist parties. They're holding at the moment.
I'm just very surprised that she was adamant that the hard right was currently that strong...seeing as it's all still to play for? It's as if she sees it as a fait accompli...when there has not been an election yet.
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An increase doesn't mean they are now in the majority, it means the number of far-right MEPs is greater now than at some point in the past.
 
Lupa said:
That's what I thought.
Thanks.
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Although actually, around 370 MEP's are in groupings you'd probably consider hard right. And a majority would be 376. Add the AfD who are independent of any grouping and yeah, it's a majority.
 
SpackleFrog said:
Well, there's lots of right wing populist types, and there's quite a few actual fascists as well. How far right are you talking?

The Front National have 24 MEP's, the Alternative für Deutschland have 7 and will massively increase that this year. Fidesz (Orban's party) have 11 MEP's.
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It's not just Fidesz you have to worry about in Hungary. Fidesz are have been around for ages and are considered right wing round these parts but not far right. PiS here in Poland are further right than Fidesz.

Look out for "Jobbik" in Hungary. They are the proper fash and they got an astonishing amount of votes considering.

But, yes, certainly for MEPs the trend across all of Europe is to the far right.. and that's because the far right spend all their time campaigning for MEP selection. The rest of the in-power parties are more worried about general elections. Basically they are sleeping.
 
FabricLiveBaby! said:
It's not just Fidesz you have to worry about in Hungary. Fidesz are have been around for ages and are considered right wing round these parts but not far right. PiS here in Poland are further right than Fidesz.

Look out for "Jobbik" in Hungary. They are the proper fash and they got an astonishing amount of votes considering.

But, yes, certainly for MEPs the trend across all of Europe is to the far right.. and that's because the far right spend all their time campaigning for MEP selection. The rest of the in-power parties are more worried about general elections. Basically they are sleeping.
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Yes indeed, I'm sure Jobbik and PiS will be represented in the European Parliament soon if they're no already.

I wish the far right did spend all its time on Euro elections though, they organise quite a lot of demos in South Yorkshire where I live, although thankfully they're a lot smaller than they were. I think there actually might be other reasons anti-EU parties do quite well in Euro elections though, don't you? Why is it pro-EU parties can win general elections but often not European elections do you think?
 
The hard right certainly doesn't spend all it's time campaigning for EU elections - it's currently in power in Hungry, in Italy, is the second largest party in the Netherlands, got through to the run off or the French presidency and did very well in the last years elections in Sweden.
 
SpackleFrog said:
I think the Blue Shirts are just as reactionary as the Tories are - you think the Tories are hard right don't you? You wouldn't call them centre right would you?

Calling the Shinners centre left is nonsense to me, but I don't suppose we will agree on that.




That's a very right wing conception of centrism.
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The Shinners will cleave leftward for as long as it suits them to do so, and that means having something on their left flank - the Trots for all their obvious flaws provide that, as do the extraparliamentary social movements.

There was a time long, long ago when FF was considered centre-left: as you know, things evolved in a substantially different direction. But Irish society is not quite what it was in FF's early days, so there's no need to assume that SF must inevitably follow the FF path, even if that is one possible outcome.
 
Idris2002 said:
The Shinners will cleave leftward for as long as it suits them to do so, and that means having something on their left flank - the Trots for all their obvious flaws provide that, as do the extraparliamentary social movements.

There was a time long, long ago when FF was considered centre-left: as you know, things evolved in a substantially different direction. But Irish society is not quite what it was in FF's early days, so there's no need to assume that SF must inevitably follow the FF path, even if that is one possible outcome.
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Thanks for the grudging admission of the positive role played by Trots ;)

Agreed, I just don't think it makes any sense to call an inherently sectarian and reactionary nationalist party centre left.
 
SpackleFrog said:
Yes indeed, I'm sure Jobbik and PiS will be represented in the European Parliament soon if they're no already.

I wish the far right did spend all its time on Euro elections though, they organise quite a lot of demos in South Yorkshire where I live, although thankfully they're a lot smaller than they were. I think there actually might be other reasons anti-EU parties do quite well in Euro elections though, don't you? Why is it pro-EU parties can win general elections but often not European elections do you think?
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stv
 
SpackleFrog said:
Thanks for the grudging admission of the positive role played by Trots ;)

Agreed, I just don't think it makes any sense to call an inherently sectarian and reactionary nationalist party centre left.
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If I was a republican I'd start talking about the inheritance of Wolfe Tone and all the delirium of the grave. I'm not so I won't, but I will say that sectarian reaction is not the only thing inherent in Irish nationalism.
 
Idris2002 said:
If I was a republican I'd start talking about the inheritance of Wolfe Tone and all the delirium of the grave. I'm not so I won't, but I will say that sectarian reaction is not the only thing inherent in Irish nationalism.
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Of course not. But it's definitely present. I don't think you can say that Sinn Fein are a similar party to the centre left Socialist Party in France for example.
 
No one spotted leaking pipe washes out debates.

I work with a group of people, who are from around the world, all stunned by the polico doubletalk and lies
 
People would do well to stop prentending that the undesirable parties of Europe are about, at worse win a few marginal seats, hopefully their ideology won't grow ever bigger.
 
There could just as likely be an anti-brexit mobilisation in the UK around the euro elections, we’ve already seen the six million strong petition, and there’s some fairly effective campaigners out there like the led by donkeys lot that can draw in crowd funding (although tragically I can see them singing for the Lib Dems or tinge). Motivation to vote is critical, some Brexit supporters might boycott the elections in principle, or just feel jaded by the lack of political progress generally and fuck it off.

Labour’s success will depend on whether May succeeds with the current talks aimed at nailing a Labour logo on Brexit, as appearing to back even a soft Brexit-in-name-only will hit their core metropolitan vote.
 
Got some really disgusting shitey areas in the south west that let in some truly disgusting characters.
My own bit of Bristol is solid labour in parliament and was 70/30 in the referendum .. I
don't seem to be able to find what the local turnouts were for the Euros ...

EDIT:-

I'm thinking out loud about where, geographically the effort needs to be put in - as in these BNP candidates live somewhere and presumably get local votes even though it's an EU election - and we have no other way to tell where their vote came from.


euros2014.png
 
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