Black Hebrew Israelite Watch

[ItStillWontWork]

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the antisemitic craziness coming out of Kanye West recently, and some might be aware of the origins of the ideas he seems to be getting tangled up in - the idea that the victims of the trans-atlantic slave trade are the original people chosen by God, and that Jewish people of today have stolen their identity.

It's a loopy idea, and never in my life did I imagine these ideas would spread beyond a handful of fruitcakes in a Louis Theroux documentary. But here we are in 2022, and Black Hebrew Israelite ideology is getting more and more mainstream.

Clearly this is a worrying trend, and I think it might be useful to have a thread keeping track of this phenomena popping up in the news cycle.

Here are some recent clips of BHIs coming out in support of an American basketball player who recently expressed these beliefs. Make no mistake, these are Brownshirts.

 

[mojo pixy]

Twist: there's a Black Hebrew community in Israel (in the south in Dimona, a weird little place in the middle of the desert, most famous for its nuclear facility IIRC).

They used to have a pretty good vegan cafe in Tel Aviv but I don't know if that's still there.

 

[ItStillWontWork]

Twist: there's a Black Hebrew community in Israel (in the south in Dimona, a weird little place in the middle of the desert, most famous for its nuclear facility IIRC).

They used to have a pretty good vegan cafe in Tel Aviv but I don't know if that's still there.

They're facing deportation, apparently. This raises an important point actually; that the BHI movement isn't unified at all, and not all groups are violent or racist (although I would argue that their beliefs are inescapably antisemitic even if the people themselves are not).

 

[mojo pixy]

They're facing deportation, apparently.

Not all of them, about 50 families IIRC. Of course, the Israeli right don't like them, especially the more recent arrivals. The actual community is a couple of thousand strong and it's been there quite a long time, they're fairly well established.

This raises an important point actually; that the BHI movement isn't unified at all, and not all groups are violent or racist (although I would argue that their beliefs are inescapably antisemitic even if the people themselves are not).

Actually I want to add, in my experience there are basically two tendencies of Black Hebrewism. One says we are the real Jews instead of those people historically calling themselves Jews, who aren't, which is antisemitic (and pretty stupid). The other says we are descended from one of the 'lost tribes' of Israel therefore we are also Jewish. Which is not IMO antisemitic as it isn't denying anyone else's jewishness. The 'also' tendency (not the 'instead' tendency) did win some sympathy among more liberal Israelis back in the day, to the extent they gained the right to stay there.

Just a little edit, now fwiw I've exhausted my understanding of Black Hebrews.

 

[petee]

in support of an American basketball player who recently expressed these beliefs.

and is an antivaxxer etc.
he's caused some hand-wringing among Nets fans but not too much becuase he's really great, see.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

and is an antivaxxer etc.
he's caused some hand-wringing among Nets fans but not too much becuase he's really great, see.

Isn't he also a flat earther?

 

[petee]

Isn't he also a flat earther?

yes, but he's sorry.

Celts' Irving apologizes for saying Earth is flat

Kyrie Irving, speaking at Forbes' Under 30 Summit on Monday, apologized for saying last year that the Earth is flat. He said he "didn't realize the effect" his comments would have.

www.espn.com

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but does Rastafarianism count as 'also' Black Hebrewism?

Edit : Having just looked this up it appears that alot of Rastas do believe this.

 

[tim]

The British Israelite's believe similar stuff except their take is that the Lost Tribes are a different group of Volk. They have a dinky little chapel behind the National Gallery, if you fancy a visit. Part of their credal statement is below.

We believe that:
The true descendants of Israel are in the Celto-Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Germanic and Dutch/Holland peoples in Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand and America (A Great Nation) and the British Isles (A Great Nation and Company of Nations).
We Believe: The Royal Family is directly descended from the Line of David.

I had a friend who went to a Christian Marxist dialogue group that met there back in the early 80s. They were told to tell anyone in the congregation that asked that they were in the "cycle club".

 

[petee]

The British Israelite's believe similar stuff except their take is that the Lost Tribes are a different group of Volk. They have a dinky little chapel behind the National Gallery, if you fancy a visit. Part of their credal statement is below.

We believe that:
The true descendants of Israel are in the Celto-Anglo-Saxon, Scandinavian, Germanic and Dutch/Holland peoples in Australia, Canada, South Africa, New Zealand and America (A Great Nation) and the British Isles (A Great Nation and Company of Nations).
We Believe: The Royal Family is directly descended from the Line of David.

personal footnote, when i was a tyke my parents listened to a weekly program of irish music. it was followed immediately by a weekly program of british israelite preaching from this guy. my parents, paranoid catholics, tried to get me to stop listening, lest i be lured by this twaddle.

Garner Ted Armstrong - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[jeff_leigh]

Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but does Rastafarianism count as 'also' Black Hebrewism?

Edit : Having just looked this up it appears that alot of Rastas do believe this.

Yeah Rastas believe that Haile Selassie the Ethiopian Emperor was the second coming of Jesus, Ethiopia also supposedly the birth place of the Queen of Sheba

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Yeah Rastas believe that Haile Selassie the Ethiopian Emperor was the second coming of Jesus, Ethiopia also supposedly the birth place of the Queen of Sheba

I admit that it's a small study sample, but I've never met a Rasta that wanted to enslave anyone who didn't believe as they did.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

My understanding is that rastas identify with the ancient Israelites, seeing Africans ,and more specifically rastas, as 'god's chosen people' aswell as seeing the Bible as representing the history of black people. And that many of them apparently believe jewish people to not actually be the true descendents of the ancient Israelites.

So to me that seems to very much fit with the Black Israelites thing.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Yeah Rastas believe that Haile Selassie the Ethiopian Emperor was the second coming of Jesus,

I think many do believe this, but not all of them.

 

[CH1]

Posting this as I happened to see it amongst the Youtube Christian crazies channels and this sect pops up from time to time in South London

 

[editor]

Posting this as I happened to see it amongst the Youtube Christian crazies channels and this sect pops up from time to time in South London

Solid grifting.

 

[CH1]

Solid grifting.

Not sure there. Garfield Reid appears to be one the current vogue of Youtube guests who have written a book and are atheist or agnostic debunkers of dogma - in this case the Black Hebrew Israelite dogma.
Given that Garfield is a Jamaican US resident/citizen his delivery is somewhat more plain speaking than the Archbishop of Canterbury!

 

[GarveyLives]

Hopefully, members of the Hebrew Israelite cult will be able to explain this:

Burned, beaten, murdered: What happened to three-year-old Dwelaniyah Robinson

(Source: as stated in image)​

Hebrew Israelite cult member, Christina Robinson, will be sentenced to life imprisonment for the murder of her child and four related child cruelty offences by Mr Justice Garnham at Newcastle Crown Court on 24 May 2024.

 

[Elpenor]

Are these the people who have been on Oxford street at times handing out leaflets / pamphlets? When I say at times I mean some point in the last 15 years I suppose

 

[CH1]

Just a note re Jewish origins etc.
There's a lot flying round YouTube lately regarding the "Khazar Conspiracy"

Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This theory about Askenazi Jews being descended form non-Jewish Turkic Khazars has been around for ages. The American poet and friend of TS Eliot Ezra Pound was a believer, and the prolific write Arthur Koestler wrote a book about this theory "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976.

This material, whether it has any substance or not, clearly contributes to Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs. I bought a book by RA Headley - a British West Indian Black Hebrew Israelite - written in 2013.
Headley's book takes the Khazar theory as it's starting point - but the book is scarcely intellectual, it's really a string of way-out short sermons.
Mr Headley, if he is still with us, is not one of the macho spoiling for a fight street preachers we get in Brixton I feel very sure.

The Anti Defamation League in America has a detailed article about Black Hebrew Israelite sects within the USA.

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

Clearly the ADL consider these various factional groups antisemitic and worth monitoring.

Curiously Arthur Koestler the author of the Thirteenth Tribe was a non-religious Jew and apparently thought that spreading the idea that the Jews were polygenetic might in some way defuse the polarity involving Zionists and Antisemites. OOOPs!

 

[tim]

Just a note re Jewish origins etc.
There's a lot flying round YouTube lately regarding the "Khazar Conspiracy"

Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This theory about Askenazi Jews being descended form non-Jewish Turkic Khazars has been around for ages. The American poet and friend of TS Eliot Ezra Pound was a believer, and the prolific write Arthur Koestler wrote a book about this theory "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976.

This material, whether it has any substance or not, clearly contributes to Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs. I bought a book by RA Headley - a British West Indian Black Hebrew Israelite - written in 2013.
Headley's book takes the Khazar theory as it's starting point - but the book is scarcely intellectual, it's really a string of way-out short sermons.
Mr Headley, if he is still with us, is not one of the macho spoiling for a fight street preachers we get in Brixton I feel very sure.

The Anti Defamation League in America has a detailed article about Black Hebrew Israelite sects within the USA.

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

Clearly the ADL consider these various factional groups antisemitic and worth monitoring.

Curiously Arthur Koestler the author of the Thirteenth Tribe was a non-religious Jew and apparently thought that spreading the idea that the Jews were polygenetic might in some way defuse the polarity involving Zionists and Antisemites. OOOPs!

The old antiSemitic Khazar trope gets another outing.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Just a note re Jewish origins etc.
There's a lot flying round YouTube lately regarding the "Khazar Conspiracy"

Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This theory about Askenazi Jews being descended form non-Jewish Turkic Khazars has been around for ages. The American poet and friend of TS Eliot Ezra Pound was a believer, and the prolific write Arthur Koestler wrote a book about this theory "The Thirteenth Tribe" in 1976.

This material, whether it has any substance or not, clearly contributes to Black Hebrew Israelite beliefs. I bought a book by RA Headley - a British West Indian Black Hebrew Israelite - written in 2013.
Headley's book takes the Khazar theory as it's starting point - but the book is scarcely intellectual, it's really a string of way-out short sermons.
Mr Headley, if he is still with us, is not one of the macho spoiling for a fight street preachers we get in Brixton I feel very sure.

The Anti Defamation League in America has a detailed article about Black Hebrew Israelite sects within the USA.

You are being redirected...

www.adl.org

Clearly the ADL consider these various factional groups antisemitic and worth monitoring.

Curiously Arthur Koestler the author of the Thirteenth Tribe was a non-religious Jew and apparently thought that spreading the idea that the Jews were polygenetic might in some way defuse the polarity involving Zionists and Antisemites. OOOPs!

Some groups within this umbrella, claim Native Americans are descended from sub-Saharan Africans who came over by boats, rather than people who came over the northern land bridge during the last ice age. I've also seen claims to have built Stonehenge and being Vikings too.

On the other hand, I see some white guys on Youtube, explaining the history of Europe wearing tweed jackets to cover up their racist tats. I guess historical revisionism is everyone's game now that we have the internet.

 

[CH1]

Some groups within this umbrella, claim Native Americans are descended from sub-Saharan Africans who came over by boats, rather than people who came over the northern land bridge during the last ice age. I've also seen claims to have built Stonehenge and being Vikings too.

On the other hand, I see some white guys on Youtube, explaining the history of Europe wearing tweed jackets to cover up their racist tats. I guess historical revisionism is everyone game now that we have the internet.

There is a University of Chicago paper from 1997 discussing Ivan van Sertima's 1976 book "They came before Columbus" which suggested Mesoamerican Olmec head statues were of Africans, and indeed Mesoamerican pyramids were derived from Egyptian pyramids.

Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the Olmecs

Robbing Native American Cultures: Van Sertima's Afrocentricity and the Olmecs

www.academia.edu

Looking at this issue from the current vantage point of 2024 you can imagine how at exactly the same time when "Roots" was all the rage as a book and a TV series that Ivan van Sertima would have gone down well with his African origins theories. According to Wiki he testified to Congress opposing the recognition of "Columbus Day" as the recognition of Columbus' discovery of the Americas. I had a video cassette somewhere of him giving a lecture at Camden Town Hall on his book in 1986. Someone has obligingly put this up on YouTube

Whilst van Sertima's theories are not generally accepted, neither are the Mormon Church's - and yet they are an extremely prosperous church founded on a totally impossible origin myth (extract here from Wikipedia)
"The Book of Mormon claims to be a chronicle of early Israelites who left the Near East and traveled to the Americas. The book begins c. 600 BC with the departure from Jerusalem of the family of the prophet Lehi at the urging of God, and their sailing c. 589 BC to the Americas. It tells of people in the Americas (i.e., First Nations Americans) with a belief in Christ hundreds of years before his birth; their witnessing his personal visitation to them after his resurrection; and of their eventually losing Christianity after generations of wars and apostasy. The Book of Mormon and continuing revelations would be the means of establishing correct doctrine for the restored church. Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and other early followers began baptizing new converts in 1829, and formally organized in 1830 as the Church of Christ.[15] Smith was seen by his followers as a modern-day prophet.[16"

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Whilst van Sertima's theories are not generally accepted, neither are the Mormon Church's - and yet they are an extremely prosperous church founded on a totally impossible origin myth (extract here from Wikipedia)
"The Book of Mormon claims to be a chronicle of early Israelites who left the Near East and traveled to the Americas. The book begins c. 600 BC with the departure from Jerusalem of the family of the prophet Lehi at the urging of God, and their sailing c. 589 BC to the Americas. It tells of people in the Americas (i.e., First Nations Americans) with a belief in Christ hundreds of years before his birth; their witnessing his personal visitation to them after his resurrection; and of their eventually losing Christianity after generations of wars and apostasy. The Book of Mormon and continuing revelations would be the means of establishing correct doctrine for the restored church. Smith, Oliver Cowdery, and other early followers began baptizing new converts in 1829, and formally organized in 1830 as the Church of Christ.[15] Smith was seen by his followers as a modern-day prophet.[16"

Yeah, there's some really dodgy stuff with the Mormon church. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young had their own crew of enforcers. People they had disagreements with had the bad habit of going missing or turning up dead. There's a book called "Handcarts to Zion" that details the trek many people made to get to Utah. They were too poor for wagons or horses, so they loaded up handcarts and made the trip. A lot of them didn't make it. That's before we've gotten to their theology, which includes such things as African people are devil spawn. And, or course, there's polygamy. There are rescue groups that take in boys that have been expelled from the fundamentalist towns because they would compete with the old men for young girls. The girls don't make it out in large numbers.

Religion, ain't it grand?

 

[ouirdeaux]

How exactly does one have a belief in Christ hundreds of years before his birth, exactly? And then somehow lose it?

 

[CH1]

How exactly does one have a belief in Christ hundreds of years before his birth, exactly? And then somehow lose it?

I would have thought the Wikipedia piece was pretty clear.
In many or even most Christian denominations Christ exists "before all things" (By whom all things were made in the Creed)
As regards old testament prophets and wandering lost tribes of Israel believing in Christ - this is an element of head-banging American theology,
Evidently - assuming they were descended from lost tribes - the First Nation tribes in North America were no longer Christian by 1600 ish.
The presence of pyramid-like structures such as what is now called Monks Mound in Illinois probably egged Joseph Smith and the early Mormons on in their strange beliefs (remember the Golden Tablets of the Book of Mormon were written in hieroglyphs)

 

[petee]

As regards old testament prophets and wandering lost tribes of Israel believing in Christ - this is an element of head-banging American theology,

yyyyup. when i was teaching undergraduates i came across this.it was an eye-opener for a very catholicly raised kid such as myself.

 

[PTK]

How exactly does one have a belief in Christ hundreds of years before his birth, exactly? And then somehow lose it?

The Son is co-eternal with the Father, according to mainstream Chistianity. He is the Word of God (i.e. the instrument of God). In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, as John supposedly wrote.

 

[PTK]

The old antiSemitic Khazar trope gets another outing.

The Khazar theory is not necessarily anti-Jewish. It is a fact that a number of kingdoms did convert to Judaism in Yemen, Ethiopia, and North Africa, so it is not impossible that the Khazars converted too.

 

[tim]

The Khazar theory is not necessarily anti-Jewish. It is a fact that a number of kingdoms did convert to Judaism in Yemen, Ethiopia, and North Africa, so it is not impossible that the Khazars converted too.

Regardless of what may or may not have happened in Central Asia 1,200 years ago, there is very limited and contested linguistic or genetic evidence to show that Ashkenazi Jews have significant Central Asian ancestry

Those claiming that they are are clearly pushing an antiSemitic trope. David Miller, Lowkey and Chris Williamson, the three stooges of Islamic Republic of Iran Broadcasting, are employed push this lie amongst many others in the UK and presumably beyond

The Pinky and Perky take:



Pinky and Perky debunked:

Ashkenazi Jews Are Not Khazars. Here’s The Proof.

Globally speaking, all arguments suggested by proponents of Khazarian theory are either highly speculative or simply wrong.

forward.com

A Trotskyite angle:

Ukraine as the new cause célèbre of antisemitism

Antisemitism, including the antisemitism of the left, has found a new cause célèbre: the war in Ukraine.

www.workersliberty.org