A watch thread for N. American Christian nationalism, Christo-fascists and the evangelical far right

[story]

It is pretty easy to put up a billboard, yes.
But do you understand that this is an iceberg situation 8ball ?

I‘m not going to get caught in a side eddy with you about this. I think it’s important enough to start a watch thread for, you don’t seem to think it merits much attention further than curiosity.

Sure, the particular issues about one or two specific billboards or whatever are easy enough to minimise or dismiss as unimportant or insignificant. But this isn’t a couple of local loonies shouting into a void. There’s a larger context for their bullshit, and it’s gaining traction. The far right evangelical echo chamber is still fairly contained (and recently seems to be on the ebb) but imo it’s dangerous to dismiss it out of hand.

Maybe the more extra and extreme stuff will fall away as the mole children aren’t found, or Trump isn’t carried shoulder high on a bronze shield into the WH , but there’s a great deal of the more insidious subtle stuff that’s growing as a result. The RW evangelicals get huge audiences for their sermons. Even if their congregation don’t buy into the whole entire schtick they’re definitely being pushed further and further to the right and into greater prejudice.

And it only takes one nutter with a hammer to carry out yer actual stochastic terrorism.

Go ahead and minimise it, I’ll continue to worry about it

 

[tim]

IIRC churches that believe in prophecy use discernment to tell if someone's prophecy is biblical or not.

I was playing pictionary at a Quaker weekend retreat and had to draw discernment. None of the Friends in my team could discern what I drew.

 

[story]

IIRC churches that believe in prophecy use discernment to tell if someone's prophecy is biblical or not.

That’s what’s supposed to happen. But Trump endorses them and they shelve the discernment. They’ve already bought into the cult

Trump had ”prophets” in the WH had a “prophet” as his personal spiritual advisor. He attended (and I think still attends) church sermons where “prophecies” are the norm. It’s expedient for him to do so, for the time being at least.

Q was a kind of prophet too, of course.

These so-called prophets are pushing a RW agenda. It’s not holy stuff it’s prejudice and doctrine.

 

[8ball]

Go ahead and minimise it, I’ll continue to worry about it

I'm sure a good bit of worrying will fix it.

But if it helps - the evidence points in the direction of what is actually happening being the exact opposite of an iceberg situation.

 

[tim]

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[tim]

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[8ball]

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A couple of leftfield points there.

 

[story]

I'm sure a good bit of worrying will fix it.

But if it helps - the evidence points in the direction of what is actually happening being the exact opposite of an iceberg situation.

I’m not chatting about the possibility of civil war here though. I’m very glad I was wrong about the mid-terms and I’ve consequently mothballed that particular concern.

These Christo-fascists is a separate (associated) worry for me. Regardless of any political capital they may build, the effect on their congregatio/ audience is real and causing all kinds of shitty fall out.

We have threads covering the increase in homophobia over there, that’s being pushed by these fuckers. There’s plenty more hate to be had from them, which will effect school boards, local journalism, etc etc

 

[Humberto]

They don't 'get' Christ. Nice work though.

 

[8ball]

I’m not chatting about the possibility of civil war here though. I’m very glad I was wrong about the mid-terms and I’ve consequently mothballed that particular concern.

These Christo-fascists is a separate (associated) worry for me. Regardless of any political capital they may build, the effect on their congregatio/ audience is real and causing all kinds of shitty fall out.

We have threads covering the increase in homophobia over there, that’s being pushed by these fuckers. There’s plenty more hate to be had from them, which will effect school boards, local journalism, etc etc

Yeah, the homophobes keep on doubling down. Obviously they do a lot of damage within their own families and communities however many of them there are, but I think it’s very hard to tell increased stridency in extreme quarters from a generally concerning direction of movement among the bulk of the populace.

They seem convinced their weird semantics are working for them, but they might also backfire if their hyperbole gets exposed (like when they use words like “pornographic” for really tame references to non-hetero relationships).
They get evasive in interviews when asked to give any degree of detail. Fingers crossed they’ll get caught out.

 

[petee]

IIRC churches that believe in prophecy use discernment to tell if someone's prophecy is biblical or not.

i'm familiar with the RCC and the quakers, and both have tests, the RCC through the magisterium, and the quakers by the sense of individual meetings. neither anti-slavery nor anti-militarism, prophetic positions in their time, is fundamental to quakerism, both positions were reached only after long discernment. and claims of visitations from mary must be examined before being accepted within catholicism. the apparitions at medjugorje have not been approved by anyone in the vatican,, but those at fatima were.

(sorry maybe you know all this, i'm aware i sound like i'm lecturing.)

but what you have here in the states is an extreme individualistic xianity, in which anyone's claim to guidance by god must be respected, no matter the content of what they're pushing. (and it isn't restricted to rightwingers, as i learned the hard way in my marriage.)

 

[tim]

Franklin Graham, son of Billy, comes out for DeSatanist because of the latter's hard line on festive drag queens perverting Christmas with lewd dancing and a tits-in-a-box. You could probably end up on death row for doing panto in Tallahassee.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Far right is batshit shocker! Guess Americans have no choice but to vote for the good capitalists AKA the Democrats.

Btw how many threads do we actually need about the American far right and the far right in general?

I guess that must make me a Putinist and Trumpist ie. a fascist, d'oh!

 

[petee]

Far right is batshit shocker! Guess Americans have no choice but to vote for the good capitalists AKA the Democrats.

Btw how many threads do we actually need about the American far right and the far right in general?

I guess that must make me a Putinist and Trumpist ie. a fascist, d'oh!

not a trumper maybe but a cretin. those of us with bills to pay certainly know chalk from cheese.

where do you live btw?

 

[LDC]

Far right is batshit shocker! Guess Americans have no choice but to vote for the good capitalists AKA the Democrats.

Btw how many threads do we actually need about the American far right and the far right in general?

I guess that must make me a Putinist and Trumpist ie. a fascist, d'oh!

Not sure why you insist on being such a dick across this whole site tbh. Why don't you just leave if we're all so stupid/liberal/etc.?

 

[AmateurAgitator]

not a trumper maybe but a cretin. those of us with bills to pay certainly know chalk from cheese.

where do you live btw?

Shite comment. Is that the best you can do? Pathetic.

 

[petee]

Shite comment. Is that the best you can do? Pathetic.

where do you live? in the states/

 

[two sheds]

Narnia?

 

[AmateurAgitator]

where do you live? in the states/

Thats irrelevant. And my point applies globally anyway. Despite what people like you claim you are supporting bourgeois, anti-working class politics, thats simply a fact.

 

[petee]

Thats irrelevant. And my point applies globally anyway. Despite what you claim people like you are supporting bourgeois, anti-working class politics, thats simply a fact.

i now know that it's not the states. so, for your own education you realize, i invite you to face up to a single mother with two kids and two jobs who got the child tax credit and tell her she's wasting her time keeping the heat on this winter, now that she can afford it, and should instead be spending those seconds it takes to turn up the thermostat on revolutionary class politics, as defined by you.

Inside the fight for an end-of-year deal on the child tax credit

How Republicans’ disappointing midterm performance changed the politics.

www.vox.com

or you can face me and tell me that the re-calculation of the rent control laws here in NYS in 2019, effected only when the democrats got control of all three branches of state govt, and which will allow me, and tens of thousands of others similarly situated, to stay in our residences securely as we age on our fixed incomes, should on principle be rejected or ... something.

Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of 2019 - Housing Justice for All

Rent Stabilization now covers the entire state. The Emergency Tenant Protection Act (ETPA) enables municipalities in New York State to opt-in to rent stabilization. It gives tenants the right to a renewal lease, and provides protections from sudden rent hikes and retaliatory evictions. ETPA...

housingjusticeforall.org

both of those things are great victories for working class people. but you didn't know that, since you don't live here. me, i'll take what i can get.

btw, how do you spread class awareness? spending your days on message boards and insulting people whose class activity you don't even know?

 

[AmateurAgitator]

i now know that it's not the states. so, for your own education you realize, i invite you to face up to a single mother with two kids and two jobs who got the child tax credit and tell her she's wasting her time keeping the heat on this winter, now that she can afford it, and should instead be spending those seconds it takes to turn up the thermostat on revolutionary class politics, as defined by you.

Inside the fight for an end-of-year deal on the child tax credit

How Republicans’ disappointing midterm performance changed the politics.

www.vox.com

or you can face me and tell me that the re-calculation of the rent control laws here in NYS in 2019, effected only when the democrats got control of all three branches of state govt, and which will allow me, and tens of thousands of others similarly situated, to stay in our residences securely as we age on our fixed incomes, should on principle be rejected or ... something.

Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of 2019 - Housing Justice for All

Rent Stabilization now covers the entire state. The Emergency Tenant Protection Act (ETPA) enables municipalities in New York State to opt-in to rent stabilization. It gives tenants the right to a renewal lease, and provides protections from sudden rent hikes and retaliatory evictions. ETPA...

housingjusticeforall.org

both of those things are great victories for working class people. but you didn't know that, since you don't live here. me, i'll take what i can get.

btw, how do you spread class awareness? spending your days on message boards and insulting people whose class activity you don't even know?

You're the cretin if you think the current system in the US or anywhere else is not anti-working class and bourgeois. And ofcourse you conveniently don't mention the rail workers and below the rate of inflation pay etc. And I made no such claim of what a single mother should do either, pure fantasy bullshit from you there.

Also you spend way more time than me on these forums and I do my bit for the class struggle.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

i now know that it's not the states. so, for your own education you realize, i invite you to face up to a single mother with two kids and two jobs who got the child tax credit and tell her she's wasting her time keeping the heat on this winter, now that she can afford it, and should instead be spending those seconds it takes to turn up the thermostat on revolutionary class politics, as defined by you.

Inside the fight for an end-of-year deal on the child tax credit

How Republicans’ disappointing midterm performance changed the politics.

www.vox.com

or you can face me and tell me that the re-calculation of the rent control laws here in NYS in 2019, effected only when the democrats got control of all three branches of state govt, and which will allow me, and tens of thousands of others similarly situated, to stay in our residences securely as we age on our fixed incomes, should on principle be rejected or ... something.

Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of 2019 - Housing Justice for All

Rent Stabilization now covers the entire state. The Emergency Tenant Protection Act (ETPA) enables municipalities in New York State to opt-in to rent stabilization. It gives tenants the right to a renewal lease, and provides protections from sudden rent hikes and retaliatory evictions. ETPA...

housingjusticeforall.org

both of those things are great victories for working class people. but you didn't know that, since you don't live here. me, i'll take what i can get.

btw, how do you spread class awareness? spending your days on message boards and insulting people whose class activity you don't even know?

So coz I got cost of living payments and extra money for my benefits (due to my health problems) the Tory government in my country are 'pro-working class'.

Nice to know

 

[NoXion]

You're the cretin if you think the current system in the US or anywhere else is not anti-working class and bourgeois. And ofcourse you conveniently don't mention the rail workers and below the rate of inflation pay etc. And I made no such claim of what a single mother should do either, pure fantasy bullshit from you there.

Also you spend way more time than me on these forums and I do my bit for the class struggle.

None of your irrelevant anarkiddy mates are anywhere near the levers of political power in the US, which has a two-party, winner-takes-all system. This means that the choice at the ballot box is between neolibs on one side and outright Christofascists on the other. Abstention = irrelevance. There is bad and there is worse. Washing your hands does not change that.

So coz I got cost of living payments and extra money for my benefits (due to my health problems) the Tory government in my country are 'pro-working class'.

Nice to know

There are Tories who would refuse to give even that much. If the choice was between them and what we have now, would you turn down any chance to influence the vote for even that? Your political purism is a recipe for accelerationism.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

i now know that it's not the states. so, for your own education you realize, i invite you to face up to a single mother with two kids and two jobs who got the child tax credit and tell her she's wasting her time keeping the heat on this winter, now that she can afford it, and should instead be spending those seconds it takes to turn up the thermostat on revolutionary class politics, as defined by you.

Inside the fight for an end-of-year deal on the child tax credit

How Republicans’ disappointing midterm performance changed the politics.

www.vox.com

or you can face me and tell me that the re-calculation of the rent control laws here in NYS in 2019, effected only when the democrats got control of all three branches of state govt, and which will allow me, and tens of thousands of others similarly situated, to stay in our residences securely as we age on our fixed incomes, should on principle be rejected or ... something.

Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act of 2019 - Housing Justice for All

Rent Stabilization now covers the entire state. The Emergency Tenant Protection Act (ETPA) enables municipalities in New York State to opt-in to rent stabilization. It gives tenants the right to a renewal lease, and provides protections from sudden rent hikes and retaliatory evictions. ETPA...

housingjusticeforall.org

both of those things are great victories for working class people. but you didn't know that, since you don't live here. me, i'll take what i can get.

btw, how do you spread class awareness? spending your days on message boards and insulting people whose class activity you don't even know?

It can be argued that Mussolini and Hitler did things that benefitted some of the working class of their countries and that the nazis did some things that benefitted women, so does that mean that fascism is pro-working class and that the nazis were feminists?

No, it doesn't.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

None of your irrelevant anarkiddy mates are anywhere near the levers of political power in the US, which has a two-party, winner-takes-all system. This means that the choice at the ballot box is between neolibs on one side and outright Christofascists on the other. Abstention = irrelevance. There is bad and there is worse. Washing your hands does not change that.



There are Tories who would refuse to give even that much. If the choice was between them and what we have now, would you turn down any chance to influence the vote for even that? Your political purism is a recipe for accelerationism.

There is no good option for working class people under capitalism or with electoralism and I'd say I've highlighted that (even if you can't see it). Its not my fault that people like you are too dug-in to see it. And btw there are no doubt Democrats who want things shifted further to the right aswell. At the end of the day there will be no good outcome in keeping capitalism and with an electoralist approach. We cannot vote ourselves to liberation and we cannot keep handing over our power to be blindly led -so people like me say a new approach is needed - which is why we can't continue being diverted and too dependent on politicians - and things are getting evermore urgent.

 

[NoXion]

There is no good option for working class people under capitalism or with electoralism and I'd say I've highlighted that (even if you can't see it).

I literally just said there were no good options, which is why I used the words "there is bad and there is worse". The people who want to install a clerical fascist theocracy certainly aren't shying away from getting involved in the bourgeois electoral system. Almost as if there's an actual difference what there is now and what they seek to put in place.

Its not my fault that people like you are too dug-in to see it. And btw there are no doubt Democrats who want things shifted further to the right aswell. At the end of the day there will be no good outcome in keeping capitalism and with an electoralist approach.

There are no good outcomes from bourgeois electoralism, I agree. But there are still bad outcomes and worse outcomes. Or do you think there is genuinely no difference between "business as usual", and "theocratic takeover"?

We cannot vote ourselves to liberation -so people like me say a new approach is needed - which is why we can't continue being diverted and too dependent on politicians.

It's not a question of dependency, it's a question of power. As of right now, there is no significant kind of alternative power structure in play. Your political purism might have a point behind it, if there was some kind of dual power structure in place, some kind of actual alternative that people could turn towards in rejecting bourgeois politics. But where is this structure in the US? There is nothing significant. Just accelerationist hectoring from a politically irrelevant sliver of activists.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

I literally just said there were no good options, which is why I used the words "there is bad and there is worse". The people who want to install a clerical fascist theocracy certainly aren't shying away from getting involved in the bourgeois electoral system. Almost as if there's an actual difference what there is now and what they seek to put in place.



There are no good outcomes from bourgeois electoralism, I agree. But there are still bad outcomes and worse outcomes. Or do you think there is genuinely no difference between "business as usual", and "theocratic takeover"?



It's not a question of dependency, it's a question of power. As of right now, there is no significant kind of alternative power structure in play. Your political purism might have a point behind it, if there was some kind of dual power structure in place, some kind of actual alternative that people could turn towards in rejecting bourgeois politics. But where is this structure in the US? There is nothing significant. Just accelerationist hectoring from a politically irrelevant sliver of activists.

Anarkiddy? Thats what a leninist/tankie would say. I'd say the 'business as usual' and the other one are two different ways of managing capitalism, one is more extreme in a sense than the other sure. But we need to break out of this cycle of bad vs worse capitalism. And I believe that they fuel each other (and have worked together before). But basically the real alternative needs to be built up. And significantly more people need to work towards that than is currently the case, instead of focussing on electoralism and reformist type/top-down politics. To acknowledge that is not purism, its actually pragmatic.

And its not my fault that people like you insist on supporting a ruling class and their system that is screwing over and killing workers and raping and destroying the planet and worsening the climate crisis instead of doing the right thing - and no one put a gun to your head and forced you to do it.

Anyway, I guess I'm kinda derailing this thread, and I'm tired, so I'll leave it there.

 

[Tanya1982]

Franklin Graham, son of Billy, comes out for DeSatanist because of the latter's hard line on festive drag queens perverting Christmas with lewd dancing and a tits-in-a-box. You could probably end up on death row for doing panto in Tallahassee.

DeSantis goes easy on hotel sex trafficking violations

Zero fines were given for 14,000 violations of a sex trafficking law by Florida hotels and lodging establishments

www.salon.com

Franklin Graham had nothing to say about that.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

If you look closely, you can see that the Evangelicals and the Baptists in the US have much the same pedophile issue as the Catholic Church. What's worse, is that they've handled it in the same manner. Instead of cleaning up the problem and making sure kids are safe, they've covered it up:

Pete Newman was a camp director at Kanakuk Kamps, which claims to have served more than 450,000 campers, The Dispatch reported. They're located outside of Branson, Missouri, and welcome the "Evangelical elite." Newman was promoted as one of the most popular with girls who wanted to date him and guys who wanted to be him.

Kanakuk chief executive officer Joe White once claimed he wasn't sure which would be more popular at the "kamp" Jesus or Newman. He ultimately became a camp director and was sent on the road to recruit campers and raise money for the church camp. Parents were desperate to host him.

"He was also a superpredator. He groomed and abused boys in their own homes. He groomed and abused boys at camp. In fact, he abused boys across the world," The Dispatch reported. "On June 9, 2010, he pleaded guilty to seven counts of sexually abusing boys. He received a sentence of two life terms, plus 30 years. His guilty plea was but the tip of a terrible iceberg. A civil complaint alleges that there were at least 57 victims, but the prosecutor in his case estimates that the real number could be in the 'hundreds.'"

The story continues, walking through the survivors left in his wake and the trial that unfolded.

Since then, those involved in trying to protect children think that White and the camp still have a lot they're hiding about what they knew and when they knew it.

“Kanakuk Kamp and Joe White have much to answer for,” the report cited Dawn Hawkins, Senior Vice President and Executive Director of the National Center on Sexual Exploitation.

MSN

And here's kicker:

David French also wrote a column about Sen. Josh Hawley (R-MO), who is on his own personal crusade to make men more "manly." Hawley has written a book about the topic, lectured on the topic, and focused intensely on "masculinity."

Meanwhile, Hawley accepted political donations from Joe White, despite allegations that he covered up hundreds of children being molested by someone in the leadership of his church camp, Heartland Signal reported.

Hawley responded to the column by French and his report with his spouse.

"David French takes a break from promoting drag queens to talk about masculinity," Hawley posted with a laughing and crying emoji.

French's wife responded to the tweet from Hawley, saying, "Josh Hawley takes a break from counting his money from @Kanakuk CEO Joe White to complain about @DavidAFrench," she then linked to the Heartland Signal reporting.

Enter Sara Gonzales, BlazeTV host of "The News and Why It Matters," who also says she's the executive director of Defend Our Kids Texas. It's one of the fringe groups that claims drag queens are perverting children by reading children's books at public libraries.

In response to allegations that Hawley was taking money from someone who covered up for a man convicted of abusing children, Gonzales alleged that Nancy French was having an affair.

"What does your boyfriend think about your husband's column?" Gonzales said.

"Sara portrays herself as a defender of children against sexual deviance," Nancy French responded. "Though my @Kanakuk investigation exposed a cover up of what a prosecutor called 'hundreds' of child rapes, she shrugs it off. Instead, she tweets a gross lie about me and my marriage."

So, they're not only funding the election of slime like Josh Hawley, who has his own accusations of predatory behavior, and promoting malicious stories about drag queens, but they're making unfounded accusations about people that expose them. I used to be neutral about Christianity, but I'm beginning to think some strands of it are an active threat.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Pat Roberson has gone to his reward:

MSN

Only the good die young.