Black and Track

[scifisam]

Yeah, of course its going to have some impact, but as far as I'm concerned the main elements for someone to be an elite athlete are genetics, training and grim determination (not necessarily in that order)

Plus opportunity and access to facilities. Huge factors, though less so in athletics than in most other sports.

 

[felixthecat]

Well yes, that's what i've always thought. I can see that certain body shapes/types have an advantage, not least because they are easier to train and get results....for me that's where the genetics angle comes in.

Thats just part of it. I cannot see that someone like Usain Bolt can perform at that astounding level without some physiological genetic quirk. What makes his body work so much more efficiently than anyone elses? Thats not purely down to training. The man doesn't have the classic sprinter physique - what else is going on in his body to make him almost superhuman?

Bloody fascinating

 

[scifisam]

Thats just part of it. I cannot see that someone like Usain Bolt can perform at that astounding level without some physiological genetic quirk. What makes his body work so much more efficiently than anyone elses? Thats not purely down to training. The man doesn't have the classic sprinter physique - what else is going on in his body to make him almost superhuman?

Bloody fascinating

What is the classic sprinter physique? Is it short legs in comparison to torso (but probably good height overall)? That's actually the body type I have, and I am a good sprinter, though I didn't quite make the GB team.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Thats just part of it. I cannot see that someone like Usain Bolt can perform at that astounding level without some physiological genetic quirk. What makes his body work so much more efficiently than anyone elses? Thats not purely down to training. The man doesn't have the classic sprinter physique - what else is going on in his body to make him almost superhuman?

Bloody fascinating

Usain is blessed with the power of RA.
I suppose the question is...would Usain be a great swimmer, for example...if he had be trained to be? I hear people say, oh a perfect swimmers body/sprinters body...and I think well yeah I can see the years of training in it, of course, IYSWIM.

 

[Treacle Toes]

What is the classic sprinter physique? Is it short legs in comparison to torso (but probably good height overall)? That's actually the body type I have, and I am a good sprinter, though I didn't quite make the GB team.

Usain is 6.5ft...short legs ermmmmmm...

 

[scifisam]

Usain is 6.5ft...short legs ermmmmmm...

I said short legs in comparison to torso but with good height overall. I'm not really sure how that would help a sprinter, except that maybe it gives them the edge off the starting blocks - I'm just testing out Enid's teacher's theory.

 

[felixthecat]

Usain is blessed with the power of RA.
I suppose the question is...would Usain be a great swimmer, for example...if he had be trained to be? I hear people say, oh a perfect swimmers body/sprinters body...and I think well yeah I can see the years of training in it, of course, IYSWIM.

No he wouldn't be a great swimmer - he's a black male. His genetics due to his race go against him here for sure -less body fat, higher bone density meaning more effort needed to stay afloat as I said before.

But hey, he can run like the wind

 

[scifisam]

Usain is blessed with the power of RA.
I suppose the question is...would Usain be a great swimmer, for example...if he had be trained to be? I hear people say, oh a perfect swimmers body/sprinters body...and I think well yeah I can see the years of training in it, of course, IYSWIM.

But why would they get into that training if they didn't have the aptitude for it?

And why do they succeed over other people who have the same training?

 

[felixthecat]

I said short legs in comparison to torso but with good height overall. I'm not really sure how that would help a sprinter, except that maybe it gives them the edge off the starting blocks - I'm just testing out Enid's teacher's theory.

Usually sprinters have a very powerful upper body and a relatively short wide torso meaning a high centre of gravity. That lad looks like a basketball player!

 

[felixthecat]

And why do they succeed over other people who have the same training?

Exactly - there HAS to be a major physiological/genetic element.

 

[Treacle Toes]

No he wouldn't be a great swimmer - he's a black male. His genetics due to his race go against him here for sure -less body fat, higher bone density meaning more effort needed to stay afloat as I said before.

But hey, he can run like the wind

But with the extra effort? With technique and well built trained muscles?

 

[scifisam]

But with the extra effort? With technique and well built trained muscles?

He'd be competing against other people who also have the extra effort, technique and well-built trained muscles, but the others wouldn't have his biological disadvantage.

 

[Treacle Toes]

But why would they get into that training if they didn't have the aptitude for it?

And why do they succeed over other people who have the same training?

He'd be competing against other people who also have the extra effort, technique and well-built trained muscles, but the others wouldn't have his biological disadvantage.

I hear ya but I don't know.

The questions are there because with the sprinters for example I have seen different body shapes doing well. Take the 1st, 2nd and 3rd winners of the men's 100 metres final for example. The women's race today, compare 1st and 2nd places.

 

[felixthecat]

But with the extra effort? With technique and well built trained muscles?

I seriously doubt it. Its a massive disadvantage for a swimmer to be less buoyant.

 

[felixthecat]

I hear ya but I don't know.

The questions are there because with the sprinters for example I have seen different body shapes doing well. Take the 1st, 2nd and 3rd winners of the men's 100 metres final for example. The women's race today, compare 1st and 2nd places.

Its not all about body shape you know. Its whats inside that body, and how it fuunctions.

Thats why I said that young Mr Bolt doesn't have the classic sprinter shape...........

 

[scifisam]

I hear ya but I don't know.

The questions are there because with the sprinters for example I have seen different body shapes doing well. Take the 1st, 2nd and 3rd winners of the men's 100 metres final for example. The women's race today, compare 1st and 2nd places.

Maybe it's the different muscle types thing that Felix was talking about before.

Lung capacity too, I would have thought.

Will to succeed, and effort, isn't enough though, I don't think. Someone might be 5'2" and love basketball and be really hard-working with lots of support from everyone around them, but they're still unlikely to make it to the major leagues.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Its not all about body shape you know. Its whats inside that body, and how it fuunctions.

Thats why I said that young Mr Bolt doesn't have the classic sprinter shape...........

Like Carl lewis, Linford Christie etc...none of which were the shorter types...

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

It could be training conditions, it could be genetics.....It definately isn't because they have shorter legs, Bolt is 6.5ft and Carl Lewis wasn't short either....

TBH this thread and the white and wet one are tedious displays of a racial wank off.....great show lads!

You always seem embarrassed by this.

It's a bald fact, that won't go away by ignoring it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Maybe it's the different muscle types thing that Felix was talking about before.

Lung capacity too, I would have thought.

Will to succeed, and effort, isn't enough though, I don't think. Someone might be 5'2" and love basketball and be really hard-working with lots of support from everyone around them, but they're still unlikely to make it to the major leagues.

*imagines someone of 5ft 2 playing aginst 'typical' Basketball giants....*

Well yeah, of course.

 

[scifisam]

Like Carl lewis, Linford Christie etc...none of which were the shorter types...

Ah, so you do admit that biology gives people an advantage in particular sports!

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Your campaign of abuse against certain posters is obvious to most.

Sometimes it does seem, though, that as soon as 'black' gets mentioned, Rutita sticks her fingers in her ears and goes 'la la la....'.

 

[Treacle Toes]

You always seem embarrassed by this.

It's a bald fact, that won't go away by ignoring it.

Embarrassed? Go to hell! You are utterly patronising without the authority or respect which would award you such a priviledge. You got something intelligent to say JC or what?

I'm discussing it with someone who knows more about the science of these things than me, why would I be embarrassed?

 

[felixthecat]

Maybe it's the different muscle types thing that Felix was talking about before.

Lung capacity too, I would have thought.

Will to succeed, and effort, isn't enough though, I don't think. Someone might be 5'2" and love basketball and be really hard-working with lots of support from everyone around them, but they're still unlikely to make it to the major leagues.

Oh I dunno .......

ever heard of Muggsy Bogues? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muggsy_Bogues He was pretty much unique, that I will admit, but it shows you that you can be a diddy little bloke and succeed as a basketball player. His speed agility and ball handling skills were exceptional. Theres a great pic somewhere of him hugging 6'10"" Alonzo Mourning

 

[scifisam]

*imagines someone of 5ft 2 playing aginst 'typical' Basketball giants....*

Well yeah, of course.

It's the same thing with other sports and other physiological characteristics - at Olympic level, anyway.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

AFAIK, different sports tend to favour different physical attributes - body shape, type of muscle fibre, flexibility etc. There might be some genetic influence, but only in a statistical sense - as in some countries might have a relatively large group of people with predominantly long muscle fibre (built for long distance running and endurance events) but they will still have individuals with plenty of short muscle fibre also. The increased statistical chance of finding a champion might explain some of the differences across sports, but I doubt that it's very significant.
.

PCer in full babble.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Sometimes it does seem, though, that as soon as 'black' gets mentioned, Rutita sticks her fingers in her ears and goes 'la la la....'.

I tell you what JC i'm on the edge of letting myself go and ripping with you.

Read what you posted mate, it completely contradicts what the other twats around here accuse me of.

Which one of you wise guys is right huh? Oh yeah, none of you because it's just a case of pathetic bitching from grown men who should know better.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

More likely, I think, is culture. When a country does well in a sport, more people become interested in that sport and the best talent (and funding) becomes available for it - other sports tend to suffer by comparison. Look at the British performances in rowing this year after Redgrave and Pinsent's efforts - not to mention cycling (which just managed to hang onto the Boardman effect via some skillful planning), and I predict a huge surge in swimming after Adlington's performances in the pool. African countries have a strong tradition in long-distance running, but the Caribbean is currently ridiculously strong in sprinting. Within mixed race cultures, there will still be this role-model effect as these countries are still very divided. Linford Christie inspired many young black sprinters - but will Adlington get black women into the pool?.

Who inspired Linford Christie?

Blacks make up 10 - 12 percent of the US population, but most of the runners on the olympic team is black. Doesn't US white culture like running?

 

[alsoknownas]

Possible genetics advantages are a different issue from opportunity - for example, anyone know how many public swimming pools there are in the entirity of Africa (I wonder if there are more in London)?

There are a fair number of public pools in the (urban) parts of Africa I have been to. Mostly outdoors.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

My youngest son asked me this question the other day and i pointed out to him that he wouldn't even mention it if the majority of sprinters were white !

I'm sure there is possibly a genetic part to it but also maybe black kids are expected to be good at certain sports and are encouraged from early on.......maybe not expected to be academic but good at sports, iyswim !:

In the US for one, there is big scholarship money for gifted track athletes. There are plenty of poor white people in the US. If it was simply a matter of poor people working extra hard at the only thing available to them, there are plenty of whites in that boat too. They just aren't on the track team.

 

[Sweaty Betty]

There are a fair number of public pools in the (urban) parts of Africa I have been to. Mostly outdoors.

Its more to do with how swimming is viewed rather than ability---i reckon its seen as a sissy sport nowt to do with colour imo