Birmingham Bin Strike//Care Workers news and discussion

[IMRAN Hameed]

By posing as a community-led effort. If they cared about the community then surely they should be supporting members of it who are on strike rather than aiding the council's attack on their wages?

These people are cleaning up their own streets after the bins strike

No one scabbing we do

Can you dump it outside council house on Victoria Sq next time thou! Cheers.

No sorry we don't want to get involved with the strikes we are only moving the rubbish

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

I missed this earlier. It might have got temporarily moderated for containing a link.

You've had funding from private businesses who may well have a political incentive to help break the strike. You've also been given use of vehicles of a private refuse company who may well have their eye on taking up work from the redundancies.

No this is incorrect we have not had any refuse companies vehicles we have used a open back truck which is owned by the forum, which is nothing to do with anyone it's a private firm. Then we have used a hired Luton truck. Which we all chipped in with to fund. Then we have had a lady use her van to help us out. Now local businesses have gave use some money to hire more vehicles to move the rubbish in support to clear up the streets. I would like to add that people here that sit at home accusing of us being scabs need to walk the streets and see the crap for themselves without judging. It's not pleasent especially being there that long. Your all right with the fact that we are trying and that's all we can do. We just volunteers trying to clean up the streets that's all.

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

If you don't have a clue what the strikers themselves are saying about it it's not a reflection on your credentials . It doesn't make you plastic or anything so theres no need for such defensiveness . However it's better to just admit that gracefully rather than drag Ukraine into the dispute as well . Wouldn't want Birmingham squaring up against Donbass or anything like that .

If the union regards it as scab action or strike breaking I'm perfectly happy to align with their view .

We are not scabs we don't get paid for this. We just want our streets clean that's all please don't make this into a political scene. We don't want fame also off this. We didn't invite the media they came themselves. We have been doing this for ages

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.

Whether they're paid our not is irrelevant. They're doing the work that the strikers aren't and that can only weaken the hand of the workforce as the pressure on the employer to resolve the situation is eased. If anything, the fact that they're doing it for free is surely even worse.

Judging whether scabbing is acceptable by the adverse affects that any particular strike might have on the public seems faintly ridiculous. All industrial action could be said to cause some form of inconvenience and it should be a given that all workers have the same rights to collective bargaining with strike action as the last resort. The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.

I would like you to say all this when you have to live with it. It's easier said than done five weeks since the bags have moved, rats all over the bags. Maggots everywhere, the smell is horid. Strike or no strike I'm proud of cleaning up my streets long live the movement, everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

As I said in an earlier post this isn't just about inconvenience, public health is a real consideration after 5 weeks of work stoppage .

. Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm .

Its summer, the kids are all off school . rich folks will be able to send their kids off somewhere . Working class kids will have the streets . I'd find it difficult to believe strikers would want kids, including their own to be facing a hazard . Which is why I'd wait and see what the union itself has to say before condemning anyone as a scab .

Thank you so much, I've moved the bags the smell makes you Feel sick. The dripping of bags and maggots is even worse. I've had rats jump out on us when moving the bags that's how bad it is. It's awful. Some people on this forum should join us and see for themselves at the state of things it's absolutely not acceptable. I'm proud to do it and give people their streets back

 

[alan_]

I would like you to say all this when you have to live with it. It's easier said than done five weeks since the bags have moved, rats all over the bags. Maggots everywhere, the smell is horid. Strike or no strike I'm proud of cleaning up my streets long live the movement, everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion

Along with the clearing rubbish work you have been doing, have you talked to or made any representation to the council

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

Along with the clearing rubbish work you have been doing, have you talked to or made any representation to the council

No nothing at all I promise you. We are just cleaning the streets that's all. We don't want to get involved with their dispute, on who's wrong and who's right

 

[alan_]

No nothing at all I promise you. We are just cleaning the streets that's all. We don't want to get involved with their dispute, on who's wrong and who's right

What about the strikers, have you had a chat with them at all?

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention. And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers. It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid. Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.

I fully understand your concern, look it from our point of view. We are working people most of us, we have to put up with this rubbish each day for the last five days. We have done our little bits to go to the tip on a Sunday buts it to much, I've personally phoned the council on numerous occasions to no avail

What about the strikers, have you had a chat with them at all?

No not at all.

 

[alan_]

You do realise that if you were a real binman, you would need to be up for work in an hour and a half so you could not sit on the internet all night chattin

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention. And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers. It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid. Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.

Seriously how can we resolve this matter. On a level we all came together and thought let's just move it. This is how it began nothing else. I appreciate what your saying but we have not intention of getting involved. We just want our streets back and our children in no danger of sickness. Please please understand our views and respect them as you would have done the same

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

You do realise that if you were a real binman, you would need to be up for work in an hour and a half so you could not sit on the internet all night chattin

Your absolutely right. Again I must stress it's not against them. We are not politically motivated in the slightest. At the same time I don't want it on my doorstep, so instead of speaking about it we decided to do something. Nothing more nothing less

 

[alan_]

I fully understand your concern, look it from our point of view. We are working people most of us, we have to put up with this rubbish each day for the last five days. We have done our little bits to go to the tip on a Sunday buts it to much, I've personally phoned the council on numerous occasions to no avail


No not at all.

I just asked you in the previous post (125) if you had spoken to the council you replied

"No nothing at all I promise you."

post 128 says you phoned them on numerous occasions

 

[alan_]

Do you support the council workers withdrawal of labour

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

I just asked you in the previous post (125) if you had spoken to the council you replied

"No nothing at all I promise you."

post 128 says you phoned them on numerous occasions

Listen Alan I've phoned them as a resident nothing to do with bearded broz asking them when the bin men are going to come to collect rubbish. Same reply and this is what we were sick and tired of. You asked if we had made any representation, which I've replied to as no.

The simple fact is we live here and we don't want the crap on the door step. Why is it causing such an issue that we want to clean it up free of charge

 

[alan_]

Listen Alan I've phoned them as a resident nothing to do with bearded broz asking them when the bin men are going to come to collect rubbish. Same reply and this is what we were sick and tired of. You asked if we had made any representation, which I've replied to as no.

The simple fact is we live here and we don't want the crap on the door step. Why is it causing such an issue that we want to clean it up free of charge

Its not causing an issue, apart from the fact that it is unsustainable and your actions may in the end prolong the situation which you claim you wish to solve

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

Whilst I appreciate that your hearts might be in the right place, and can understand your frustration about mounting rubbish, what you're doing - strike breaking - is political, regardless of whether or not that's your intention. And, you say that the dispute is nothing to do with you, but you've chosen to undermine one side - the wokers. It's really not just "simple as that", I'm afraid. Raher than scabbing, you shuld be putting your efforts into resolving the issue to the bin men's benefit, by putting pressure on the council.

We have no intention of breaking any strikes or taking sides. Please remember we are not emptying bins we are only taking the black bin bags away that are making mountains that's all

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

Its not causing an issue, apart from the fact that it is unsustainable and your actions may in the end prolong the situation which you claim you wish to solve

Appreciate your concern but rest assured as I've just mentioned in a reply that we are only taking away the mountains of black bin bags not emptying out bins. But again I must stress we are not taking sides, just trying to help out and get our lives back without this crap on door steps

 

[Athos]

We have no intention of breaking any strikes or taking sides. Please remember we are not emptying bins we are only taking the black bin bags away that are making mountains that's all

You are strike breaking. Undermining the impact of fellow workers' withdrawal of their labour, by doing at least part of their job. You're weakening their position in negotiations with the council - whether or not you meant to, you have taken a side.

Yes, of course you want the rubbish moved, but you've gone about it the wrong way; you should have tried to bring the strike to an end by supporting the bin men, in my opinion.

 

[Athos]

Seriously how can we resolve this matter. On a level we all came together and thought let's just move it. This is how it began nothing else. I appreciate what your saying but we have not intention of getting involved. We just want our streets back and our children in no danger of sickness. Please please understand our views and respect them as you would have done the same

I'm sorry, but I don't respect what you've done (albeit I recognise that you were well-meaning). And I most certainly wouldn't have done the same. Yes, I would have organised with the aim of getting the rubbish moved, but not in the way you have. I'd have applied pressure to the council to compromise with the bin men. There's loads of tactics you could use: withholding council tax until the situation is resolved, pickets, petitions, speaking at council meetings, legal challenges, etc., etc..

 

[Nice one]

I don't really think we are into black shirted razor gang territory just yet .

I've been in industrial action were strictly speaking it was a breach of work to rule for meals to be physically given to patients , jugs of water left at besides..stuff like that . The action taken had to be balanced against welfare and health of patients . The union made allowances for what was inconvenient and annoying and what was intolerable/unsafe for the public . Management taking patients on trolleys for operations and treatment weren't in anyway hindered , abused or considered scabs either . Even though all this mitigated against the effects of the action and took pressure off them . There are situations that arise sometimes were a balance needs to be struck .
That's why I'd wait to hear the unions take before I'd take a position as to whether or not this constituted scabbing .

A strike against an elected council requires public support . The union will have to weigh up the pros and cons of alienating public support . Appearing overly inflexible in a situation were ordinary people are facing hazards on their doorstep is a potential route to alienating the public . I doubt any union wants to be seen as having a position of " we don't care if you get sick and there are rats and flies everywhere " . PR and public goodwill is very important in a dispute like this too . It's not a companies profits and shareholders that are bearing the brunt of this , it's the general public . Primarily the working class . It's very important not to alienate or divide that constituency whether you're a striker or a councillor .

It's definitely wise to scrutinise this situation closely and be wary but a knee jerk can prove counter productive . Worth too bearing in mind it's local businessmen who are shouldering the expense of this clean up. They generally squeal louder than any rat when they're out of pocket . The strike still makes an impact .
I'm sure that's what the union are weighing up so that's why I'd wait to hear their position . If they say scab then scab it is .

i was thinking more of the midle class students who were drafted in as volunteers to take over the work of the strikers during the 1926 strike. They could be described as 'scab labour', no?

Yes most public sector strikes, and this one in particluar, doesn't disrupt the flow of capital, so the impact is only ever going to be socially felt. But in your explanation you take the vantage point of the employer.

An alternative position could be: An elected council, acting as employer, which does not practicably negotiate with its own workforce over pay and conditions risks alienating public confidence in that councils ability to run local services. The council, as an employer, has to weigh the pros and cons of alienating public confidence, before ignoring the grievances of its own workers. Appearing overly inflexible in a situation were ordinary people are facing hazards on their doorstep is a potential route to alienating the public. I doubt any council wants to be seen as having a position of "we don't care if you get sick and there are rats and flies everythwere".

As simple statement by Bearded Broz along the lines of "we are in full support of the striking workers, and do not wish to undermine their efforts by taking on their jobs. The council must listen to the grievances of the bin men and accept full repsonsibility for the current state of our streets".

 

[Magnus McGinty]

No sorry we don't want to get involved with the strikes we are only moving the rubbish

By moving rubbish when there's a dispute you've made yourself involved. Hence this attention you're now getting.

 

[crossthebreeze]

So according to the news this morning, its not an all-out strike - bin men have been stopping work for 2 hours a day during July, and have now escalated that to 3 hours.
Is this correct?
If so the the fact that some people haven't had rubbish collected since June says a lot about the council's management capabilities.
And the comparisons that Casually Red is making to industrial action in the health and care sector - well this isn't an all-out strike, and the fact that stuff is that bad when workers have been there 3/4 of the time, yet the strike is against redundancies, reallyb says something.

 

[purenarcotic]

Yeah it's only ever been a couple of hours a day. The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

By moving rubbish when there's a dispute you've made yourself involved. Hence this attention you're now getting.

It's more than that.

They aren't just moving rubbish away from their homes. They are engaged in a collection service. As their own propaganda shows they are collecting business waste from their backers. They have got sponsored branded high viz jackets. They have been 'donated' a collection wagon. They are working with the council who have opened up free access to the tip for them and they are promoting their service via interviews etc with local papers determined to see the dispute broken.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Yeah it's only ever been a couple of hours a day. The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.

I've heard that. In Kings Heath we've had one collection in 6 weeks. Is there more regular collection elsewhere then?

 

[Magnus McGinty]

It's more than that.

They aren't just moving rubbish away from their homes. They are engaged in a collection service. As their own propaganda shows they are collecting business waste from their backers. They have got sponsored branded high viz jackets. They have been 'donated' a collection wagon. They are working with the council who have opened up free access to the tip for them and they are promoting their service via interviews etc with local papers determined to see the dispute broken.

Yep, sorry, agree completely. I was just expanding on words they themselves used (taking the context as a given).

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

The posh areas have all had their rubbish collected, poorer areas haven't as well.

I'm not sure this is entirely true - my parents in Four Oaks had about 4 weeks worth backed up.

 

[bimble]

everyone is welcome to join us regardless of colour, sex, creed or religion

Naming your group 'Bearded Broz' was a bit silly then wasn't it.

 

[purenarcotic]

I've heard that. In Kings Heath we've had one collection in 6 weeks. Is there more regular collection elsewhere then?

Moseley way / top end of Balsall Heath there's only been one week it's not been collected. That or our cul de sac has just happened to be lucky but the surrounding streets have never looked like the pictures like bees.