Birmingham Bin Strike//Care Workers news and discussion

[Casually Red]

If this is the bar you're setting for opinion then we can be assured that you won't be dipping your beak into affairs such as Ukraine, without speaking to those involved first.

If you don't have a clue what the strikers themselves are saying about it it's not a reflection on your credentials . It doesn't make you plastic or anything so theres no need for such defensiveness . However it's better to just admit that gracefully rather than drag Ukraine into the dispute as well . Wouldn't want Birmingham squaring up against Donbass or anything like that .

If the union regards it as scab action or strike breaking I'm perfectly happy to align with their view .

 

[Casually Red]

Actually I like fozzie bear's suggestion. Pick up the rubbish and put it outside the council office.

I said it first

'Bearded Broz' Scab Birmingham Bin Strike

Just saying like

 

[Magnus McGinty]

If you don't have a clue what the strikers themselves are saying about it it's not a reflection on your credentials . It doesn't make you plastic or anything so theres no need for such defensiveness . However it's better to just admit that gracefully rather than drag Ukraine into the dispute as well . Wouldn't want Birmingham squaring up against Donbass or anything like that .

If the union regards it as scab action or strike breaking I'm perfectly happy to align with their view .

If I'm not allowed a view on this as part of the Labour Movement, then why are you afforded views on Sinn Fein, if not a member?

 

[Ho Chi Ming]

It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.

Whether they're paid our not is irrelevant. They're doing the work that the strikers aren't and that can only weaken the hand of the workforce as the pressure on the employer to resolve the situation is eased. If anything, the fact that they're doing it for free is surely even worse.

Judging whether scabbing is acceptable by the adverse affects that any particular strike might have on the public seems faintly ridiculous. All industrial action could be said to cause some form of inconvenience and it should be a given that all workers have the same rights to collective bargaining with strike action as the last resort. The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.

 

[bi0boy]

It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.

No it's because people have a right to look after their own shit. During the miners strike people burnt wood to keep warm, the scabbing cunts. Miners even organised the collection and distribution of wood to households, the bastards. They really should have tried to ensure more people froze to death, that would have been proper solidarity.

The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.

Total bollocks, it just demonstrates the effect that job happens to have on people's daily lives. Did you ever hear about a medical research technician's strike? Pretty sure no one would give any fucks about the lack of curing cancer for a few days.

 

[bi0boy]

I'm not sure this can be classed as scab action , not after 5 weeks of refuse building up. It's unpaid for a start and the criticism seems directed at the council and not the strikers . If there's an NHS strike and you administer first aid or CPR that's not scabbing either . Ambulance strike and you drive a relative or neighbour to hospital ?

No one has answered this I see. Apparently striking requires total solidarity from the working class to the point of people refraining from evacuating burning buildings during a firefighters strike to demonstrate how important firefighting is.

 

[Duncan2]

No one has answered this I see. Apparently striking requires total solidarity from the working class to the point of people refraining from evacuating burning buildings during a firefighters strike to demonstrate how important firefighting is.

I would be interested to see some footage of the locals which indicates where they actually stand on the merits/demerits of this particular strike.I was a bit surprised, in what I did see that, the Bros didn't refer to the strikers or their cause at all?

 

[Ptolemy]

Disappointed that "Bearded Broz" weren't a gang of Tito lookalikes wearing beards.

 

[Ho Chi Ming]

No it's because people have a right to look after their own shit. During the miners strike people burnt wood to keep warm, the scabbing cunts. Miners even organised the collection and distribution of wood to households, the bastards. They really should have tried to ensure more people froze to death, that would have been proper solidarity.

If this is your killer analogy you need more practice. There were scabs during the miners' strike. They mined coal. That's what scabs do: the work of the strikers. What delivering or burning firewood (or evacuating a burning building, for that matter) has to do with anything is anyone's guess. You can appeal to extremes if that's your bag but it may be more helpful if you stick to talking about the bin dispute. And for future reference and the well-being of anyone unfortunate enough to have an accident in your or Casually Red's presence; first aid isn't the preserve of the NHS. The clue is in the name.

Total bollocks, it just demonstrates the effect that job happens to have on people's daily lives. Did you ever hear about a medical research technician's strike? Pretty sure no one would give any fucks about the lack of curing cancer for a few days.

I don't really understand what your point is here. I suspect there isn't one.

 

[crossthebreeze]

No it's because people have a right to look after their own shit. During the miners strike people burnt wood to keep warm, the scabbing cunts. Miners even organised the collection and distribution of wood to households, the bastards. They really should have tried to ensure more people froze to death, that would have been proper solidarity.



Total bollocks, it just demonstrates the effect that job happens to have on people's daily lives. Did you ever hear about a medical research technician's strike? Pretty sure no one would give any fucks about the lack of curing cancer for a few days.

There's already been a suggestion of how this could have been done in a way that supports the strike - take it to the council chambers en masse, or some other important site, leave it there and release a statement supporting the strike.

Also its one thing "looking after your own shit" ie taking your own and your immediate neighbours rubbish to the tip on your own initiative - while i think that does undermine some of the potential bargaining power of the strikers by making the clean-up less of a ever-growing problem for the council which motivates them to negotiate an end to the strike, I don't think its scabbing per se, and can understand that people don't want to live in shit. Actually if lots of people turn up to the refuse sites in cars and jam up that system, it puts pressure on the council in another way - although it might give ideas to the austerity mongers (eg why have refuse collections at all if people are willing to deliver their own rubbish to the tip!).

Its totally another thing getting together a big group of volunteers, getting donations from local businesses for gloves, hi vis, refreshments, petrol, etc and use of several commercial vehicles, arranging access to the tips with the council (because I don't think there's many councils that would usually let you turn up in a commercial vehicle multiple times without paying commercial rates) - which may well mean working alongside blacklegs and (with the way councils are nowadays) people that work for privatised contractors that certainly diminish the power of the strike even if they are not being used as scabs (and it may be that they are), and then putting out a press release and doing tv interviews, all without mentioning support for the strike.

 

[bi0boy]

If this is your killer analogy you need more practice. There were scabs during the miners' strike. They mined coal. That's what scabs do: the work of the strikers. What delivering or burning firewood (or evacuating a burning building, for that matter) has to do with anything is anyone's guess. You can appeal to extremes if that's your bag but it may be more helpful if you stick to talking about the bin dispute. And for future reference and the well-being of anyone unfortunate enough to have an accident in your or Casually Red's presence; first aid isn't the preserve of the NHS. The clue is in the name.

Since when was taking rubbish to the tip the exclusive preserve of council employees?

 

[bi0boy]

There's already been a suggestion of how this could have been done in a way that supports the strike - take it to the council chambers en masse, or some other important site, leave it there and release a statement supporting the strike.

That would be a criminal offence.

Also its one thing "looking after your own shit" ie taking your own and your immediate neighbours rubbish to the tip on your own initiative - while i think that does undermine some of the potential bargaining power of the strikers by making the clean-up less of a ever-growing problem for the council which motivates them to negotiate an end to the strike, I don't think its scabbing per se, and can understand that people don't want to live in shit. Actually if lots of people turn up to the refuse sites in cars and jam up that system, it puts pressure on the council in another way - although it might give ideas to the austerity mongers (eg why have refuse collections at all if people are willing to deliver their own rubbish to the tip!).

Its totally another thing getting together a big group of volunteers, getting donations from local businesses for gloves, hi vis, refreshments, petrol, etc and use of several commercial vehicles, arranging access to the tips with the council (because I don't think there's many councils that would usually let you turn up in a commercial vehicle multiple times without paying commercial rates) - which may well mean working alongside blacklegs and (with the way councils are nowadays) people that work for privatised contractors that certainly diminish the power of the strike even if they are not being used as scabs (and it may be that they are), and then putting out a press release and doing tv interviews, all without mentioning support for the strike.

If the bin collectors wanted the support of local people to put pressure on the council to end the strike, maybe they should have engaged with them rather than leaving them in a stinking pile of shit.

 

[IMRAN Hameed]

By posing as a community-led effort. If they cared about the community then surely they should be supporting members of it who are on strike rather than aiding the council's attack on their wages?

These people are cleaning up their own streets after the bins strike

Hi all
My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Ah, it's the fault of the workers who are fighting to maintain their conditions and not the council who are attacking them.

One has been interviewed by the Guardian.

Birmingham refuse workers hate to see rubbish piling up – but our strike is vital

 

[Casually Red]

It's interesting that some don't see this as scabbing because a) they're volunteers, and b) rubbish is horrid.

Whether they're paid our not is irrelevant. They're doing the work that the strikers aren't and that can only weaken the hand of the workforce as the pressure on the employer to resolve the situation is eased. If anything, the fact that they're doing it for free is surely even worse.

Judging whether scabbing is acceptable by the adverse affects that any particular strike might have on the public seems faintly ridiculous. All industrial action could be said to cause some form of inconvenience and it should be a given that all workers have the same rights to collective bargaining with strike action as the last resort. The very fact that a work stoppage by a particular occupation would result in chaos should go some way to demonstrating how valued those workers are.

As I said in an earlier post this isn't just about inconvenience, public health is a real consideration after 5 weeks of work stoppage .

. Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm .

Its summer, the kids are all off school . rich folks will be able to send their kids off somewhere . Working class kids will have the streets . I'd find it difficult to believe strikers would want kids, including their own to be facing a hazard . Which is why I'd wait and see what the union itself has to say before condemning anyone as a scab .

 

[Magnus McGinty]

As I said in an earlier post this isn't just about inconvenience, public health is a real consideration after 5 weeks of work stoppage .

. Vermin infestations means there's Weils disease all over the place too . And the potential for rat bites and the like . Which if you've got small kids running about the place will be a real worry . It's one thing to be inconvenienced , even massively so, by strike action . Another thing to face potential harm .

Its summer, the kids are all off school . rich folks will be able to send their kids off somewhere . Working class kids will have the streets . I'd find it difficult to believe strikers would want kids, including their own to be facing a hazard . Which is why I'd wait and see what the union itself has to say before condemning anyone as a scab .

Why the union? I've linked to an article where one of the striking workers has been interviewed.

 

[Casually Red]

Its totally another thing getting together a big group of volunteers, getting donations from local businesses for gloves, hi vis, refreshments, petrol, etc and use of several commercial vehicles, arranging access to the tips with the council (because I don't think there's many councils that would usually let you turn up in a commercial vehicle multiple times without paying commercial rates) - which may well mean working alongside blacklegs and (with the way councils are nowadays) people that work for privatised contractors that certainly diminish the power of the strike even if they are not being used as scabs (and it may be that they are), and then putting out a press release and doing tv interviews, all without mentioning support for the strike.

If local businesses are paying through the nose on top of their rates in order to get their rubbish shifted then it's still putting pressure on the council . And those are the people who tend to be in more regular contact with the council with the ability to put pressure on . They're now out of pocket and less than pleased I'd assume .

I seem to be the only person here talking about the public health issues involved . Possibly because I've worked in a number of hospitals . As a union member . and without a doubt when it comes to getting sick it's the working class who are , without fail, first in the queue . There's a reason why nurses , ambulance drivers and firemen rarely go on strike . And that's because it can do real harm to others if they do as opposed to mere inconvenience and hardship .

Does anyone here even recognise there's a public health issue involved after 5 weeks During the school summer holidays ? If so would they recognise there are potentially considerations involved that don't arise in instances of other industrial disputes ? That the union itself possibly doesn't want harm done , as opposed to inconvenience ?

That's why I'd wait to hear what the union has to say .

 

[Casually Red]

Why the union? I've linked to an article where one of the striking workers has been interviewed.

Why the union ? Because the union are the collective of labour which has been withdrawn in this stoppage, and therefore pretty relevant .

I don't think anyone on here either doesn't recognise the necessity for the strike or would want anything other than the strikers to win their fight .
Your article doesn't even remotely mention the clean up, which is the issue at hand . There is no mention of it whatsoever . Only an explanation as to why they're on strike . Therefore it has no bearing on whether the strikers consider this to be scabbing or not . Hence why I think it'd be better to wait and see what the strikers themselves say about the clean up rather than rush to immediate judgement .

 

[Magnus McGinty]

 

[Casually Red]

If this is your killer analogy you need more practice. There were scabs during the miners' strike. They mined coal. That's what scabs do: the work of the strikers. What delivering or burning firewood (or evacuating a burning building, for that matter) has to do with anything is anyone's guess. You can appeal to extremes if that's your bag but it may be more helpful if you stick to talking about the bin dispute. And for future reference and the well-being of anyone unfortunate enough to have an accident in your or Casually Red's presence; first aid isn't the preserve of the NHS. The clue is in the name.



I don't really understand what your point is here. I suspect there isn't one.

During hospital based strikes and work to rule there's also essential cover laid on . Nobody wants to see ordinary people suffer real harm . People are still doing the work of strikers , they aren't scabs . When public health and welfare is a consideration then the situation requires some nuance and balance . Unions recognise that .

This isn't an industrial dispute, it's not a factory . Nobodies producing a product or a commodity . It's a public service that directly impacts on public health and safety thats on strike . People can suffer adverse health affects from living in a rat infested rubbish tip . Which is what the streets have become after 5 weeks of stoppage .

Knowing from experience that there are previous situations and instances were strikers have to balance their work stoppage against harm to the public and make certain allowances is why I'd wait to hear what the union has to say before I'd start labelling anyone a scab .

I agree fully with other posters that it would have been much better had the people doing the clean up issued a statement in support of the strikers . However it's also the case they haven't issued one criticising the strikers either . It's perfectly obvious that community division on the issue will only play into the hands of the council . Therefore stoking it up without waiting to hear the unions position on the clean up doesn't strike me as very helpful .

That's why I'd wait to hear what the unions saying before I start chucking Internet bricks .

 

[Casually Red]

That would be a criminal offence.


.

I don't think it would . It'd be a civil matter . It's littering after all .

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Hi all
My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com

I missed this earlier. It might have got temporarily moderated for containing a link.

You've had funding from private businesses who may well have a political incentive to help break the strike. You've also been given use of vehicles of a private refuse company who may well have their eye on taking up work from the redundancies.

 

[Ho Chi Ming]

This isn't an industrial dispute, it's not a factory . Nobodies producing a product or a commodity.

It really is an industrial dispute. There doesn't need to be a factory or a product for an industrial dispute to take place. You've heard of the service industry I presume?

 

[Casually Red]

It really is an industrial dispute. There doesn't need to be a factory or a product for an industrial dispute to take place. You've heard of the service industry I presume?

You're correct . My terminology was off . Poor choice of words .

 

[Celyn]

I don't think it would . It'd be a civil matter . It's littering after all .

"Now it all started two Thanksgivings ago... "

 

[1927]

What about the scabbing though? I know rubbish everywhere isn't pleasant but scabbing isn't acceptable. Why aren't they supporting the strikers?

live next to a pile of rotting rubbish with the risk of disease and sick kids or support strike, its a toughie

 

[Magnus McGinty]

live next to a pile of rotting rubbish with the risk of disease and sick kids or support strike, its a toughie

There's nothing tough about it. The council provoked the dispute by attacking workers wages and conditions. Put pressure on them to back off and the rubbish will be collected again.

 

[1927]

There's nothing tough about it. The council provoked the dispute by attacking workers wages and conditions. Put pressure on them to back off and the rubbish will be collected again.

and in the meantime live next to a pile of stinking rubbish and worry about the risk to your kids, no thanks.

 

[cybershot]

Hi all
My names IMRAN from the bearded broz team. I've read all comments and thanks for discussing this here. We are a community team from Birmingham that was sick and tired of rubbish on our streets for the last five weeks. The stench, the rats, the maggots, the foxes everything is horrible. The kids have to go past this nasty stuff each day to school and now in holidays. So we came together to clean it up that's all. We are not a political party and nor do we get involved in any politics. What the council and bin men have going on is nothing to do with us. We are just cleaning out streets simple as that. Hope that helps clear up the matter www.beardedbroz.com

Can you dump it outside council house on Victoria Sq next time thou! Cheers.

 

[Ho Chi Ming]

Anyone would think that a few piles of bin bags were radioactive the way some people are going on. Tell your kids not to eat the stuff. They'll be fine.