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Beating the Fascists: The authorised history of Anti-Fascist Action

Porkmeister, I still can't remember the year for definite myself, but your dates don't tie in with what was happening in my life at that time, any work that I came back to England for was always to London and as my daughter was born in March 90 and I was also out on bail up until shortly before, from Oct 89 when I was arrested at Liverpool docks getting on the boat to Belfast until I got the charges dropped in Jan or Feb 90, I had to sign bail 3 times a week at New Barnsley barracks in Belfast, so there is no way that I could have or even would have been in Manchester then

Anyway, Why should M lie about when Dave moved to Manchester? If anyone should know the date then surely it is her?

Any chance of giving me a clue who you are?
 
Denis, your jealousy over the success of Red Attitude and your failure to maintain it is sad. Move along sadman, the story is history.
 
sumud said:
Denis, your jealousy over the success of Red Attitude and your failure to maintain it is sad. Move along sadman, the story is history.
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The rancid bitterness of your posts is matched only by the ingenuous nature of the nonsense you present as 'facts'. Jog on, Troll.
 
just got my copy from freedom, I haven't read it yet, as I also have a copy of the boonot gang book to read.
i am in an odd position as throughout the events described I was coccooned in the vice like cotton wool grip of the swp, and as such ignorant of events that were occurring only a few miles up the road. where the book deals with events I had personal experience of (in Leeds especially) it seems to hit the nail on the head. of course, the writers had no access to , and less interest as well, in internal swp shennanigans.
i remember at the time that the bnp/c18 were running amok, and the swp locally were in total denial, when a swp gay couple were being threatened and attacked on their council estate they were told they were being hysterical. cars were burnt out, and the party chided the comrades as being overly materialist, party members who called for a serious response were threatened with expulsion. all this changed after cliff was attacked at a party meeting, and the fash attacked more important swappies.
when sue clegg's house was attacked the special branch came round '"we believe this attack to be political, can you think of anyone else who might be targetted?"
"oih yes" says cmde clegg and hands over the yorkshire membership lists for the anl.
:facepalm:
i have told this story before, but it shows just how unserious these professional revolutionaries were.
also the swp member who got his skull caved by the c18 with a claw hammer was later expelled for complaining about the local party's attitude to anti fascist work
 
Yes indeedy barney pig, the SWP's unseriousness towards fascist , or any other sourced, violence towards its own members goes back a long, long, way. I well remember in circa 1974/75 going up to Blackburn with a few chums to have a polite word with an (asian) gangster who had beaten up a local Asian SWP (or was it IS still then ?) member at the behest of corrupt Mr Bigs in the Asian community. Anyway the gangster was tipped off and fled out of town leaving us sitting around in a pub. I later learned that there had been a full and frank debate on the WHOLE issue at the local open branch meeting that very night ! The IS/SWP as an organisation always had the security awareness of a kindergarten class. Most strange for an avowedly revolutionary organisation. (Well I thought it was one during most of my 10 years as a member).
 
LiamO said:
The rancid bitterness of your posts is matched only by the ingenuous nature of the nonsense you present as 'facts'. Jog on, Troll.
Click to expand...

Liam, if he/she is displaying bitterness and presenting nonsense as fact, he/she is not the only one.
 
barney_pig said:
just got my copy from freedom, I haven't read it yet, as I also have a copy of the boonot gang book to read.
i am in an odd position as throughout the events described I was coccooned in the vice like cotton wool grip of the swp, and as such ignorant of events that were occurring only a few miles up the road. where the book deals with events I had personal experience of (in Leeds especially) it seems to hit the nail on the head. of course, the writers had no access to , and less interest as well, in internal swp shennanigans.
i remember at the time that the bnp/c18 were running amok, and the swp locally were in total denial, when a swp gay couple were being threatened and attacked on their council estate they were told they were being hysterical. cars were burnt out, and the party chided the comrades as being overly materialist, party members who called for a serious response were threatened with expulsion. all this changed after cliff was attacked at a party meeting, and the fash attacked more important swappies.
when sue clegg's house was attacked the special branch came round '"we believe this attack to be political, can you think of anyone else who might be targetted?"
"oih yes" says cmde clegg and hands over the yorkshire membership lists for the anl.
:facepalm:
i have told this story before, but it shows just how unserious these professional revolutionaries were.
also the swp member who got his skull caved by the c18 with a claw hammer was later expelled for complaining about the local party's attitude to anti fascist work
Click to expand...

auditech was involved in anti fascist activity in Leeds ,it would be intersting to hear his account of this period
 
The39thStep said:
auditech was involved in anti fascist activity in Leeds ,it would be intersting to hear his account of this period
Click to expand...

What period is it? If it's the 90's then after my time. Although, I did attend one static demo, early 90's I think? Previous weeks people had been attacked selling papers, specifically a woman by a couple of fascists, who ripped papers out of her hand and made threatening gestures. The attacker and the incident was photographed and featured on the cover of Searchlight. The fascists made a showing at the static demo I attended, but were heavily outnumbered. A few verbal's and then they went. I know about the one car being torched. I also heard some member was followed home and while he was upstairs in the shower some fascists entered his home. He had a lucky escape, as they went when he came downstairs. Locking the door would have been the sensible option. SC's house attacked? Haven't heard that? How would barney_pig know about the Yorkshire ANL membership list being handed over, if it was? Gay couple being threatened? Not heard that? Cliff attacked? When and where was this? It got a bit dodgy for a short while.
 
Deareg said:
Porkmeister, I still can't remember the year for definite myself, but your dates don't tie in with what was happening in my life at that time, any work that I came back to England for was always to London and as my daughter was born in March 90 and I was also out on bail up until shortly before, from Oct 89 when I was arrested at Liverpool docks getting on the boat to Belfast until I got the charges dropped in Jan or Feb 90, I had to sign bail 3 times a week at New Barnsley barracks in Belfast, so there is no way that I could have or even would have been in Manchester then

Anyway, Why should M lie about when Dave moved to Manchester? If anyone should know the date then surely it is her?

Any chance of giving me a clue who you are?
Click to expand...

Deareg,

There is no doubt about my dates. The Sporran happened after I moved to Manchester and before Weavers Field.

If anything maybe your dates do tie in with mine???

If the charges were dropped against you in Jan or Feb 90 wouldn’t you have been back in England for court at this time??
 
Porkmeister said:
Deareg,

There is no doubt about my dates. The Sporran happened after I moved to Manchester and before Weavers Field.

If anything maybe your dates do tie in with mine???


If the charges were dropped against you in Jan or Feb 90 wouldn’t you have been back in England for court at this time??
Click to expand...

Porkmeister, first let me start by saying I am not calling you a liar, but there is no doubts about my dates either, I was back in England for my court appearance and was sat in Denis's living room when I got word that the charges had been dropped, as I have said that was either jan or feb 90, if the gig at the sporran had taken place that week I have no doubt that I would have remembered, if the gig had taken place during my getting arrested in oct 89 and getting the bail changed a month to the day I also think that I would have remembered and planned my departure to allow me to be at it.

Can I ask you who you are? and also If you too think Dave was a fantasist and was working for Mi5?

I also asked you why should M lie? do you think she is lieing.
 
I was wondering if the EDL/english nationalists keep attacking/up the attacks on left wing meetings whether the analysis at the end of beating the fascists will change somewhat?(Although I appreciate atm they are nothing compared to the BNP/NF/BM rule the streets types that you lot confronted bk in the day)
 
allybaba said:
I was wondering if the EDL/english nationalists keep attacking/up the attacks on left wing meetings whether the analysis at the end of beating the fascists will change somewhat?(Although I appreciate atm they are nothing compared to the BNP/NF/BM rule the streets types that you lot confronted bk in the day)
Click to expand...

IS there much evidence of the EDL/English Nationalists engaging in direct attacks on the Left ? Since direct action anti fascism is a tactical response to fascist violence, rather than some "correct at any time and place" principal, the reappearance of direct action violent street fascism will in itself produce a reappearance of what is now generally called "Squadism".

Are we there yet though ? Probably not. However the world financial crisis which burst open like a putrid boil in 2008, represents , to me, the start of a new era in domestic and world politics. (The end of the entire Post War era of one entire phase of the Long Wave Kondratiev Cycle perhaps) We can already see the more violent manifestations of this in Greece and the Middle East. How long before the British political system "turns nasty" as the capitalist class attempts to make us pay for the bankers crisis by turning out our collective pockets, is very hard to predict.

The core point made in BTF, that the Left needs to get into real community based political action in the White Working Class at grass roots level . as with the IWCA initiative, remains totally valid however, regardless of the re-emergence or not of violent street fascism on the back of generalised unrest produced by the new era of destabilised capitalism.
 
ayatollah said:
IS there much evidence of the EDL/English Nationalists engaging in direct attacks on the Left ?
Click to expand...

http://manchesterafa.org/2011/06/19/edl-attack-rage-against-racism-gig/

There have been quite alot of activity from them recently especially in the north. If these attacks on the left continue and if they escalate I would say it is a worrying development.



ayatollah said:
The core point made in BTF, that the Left needs to get into real community based political action in the White Working Class at grass roots level . as with the IWCA initiative, remains totally valid however, regardless of the re-emergence or not of violent street fascism on the back of generalised unrest produced by the new era of destabilised capitalism.
Click to expand...
I totally agree.
 
We're not at a stage where meetings/papersales/bookshops/individuals being followed and attacked/houses having their windows put through/slogans daubed on doors/threatening phone calls at all hours etc are happening on a regular basis, nevertheless, it seems a trend of that nature is beginning to emerge? At this stage it appears provocative in nature and so calm heads should prevail to avoid reacting to it. Defence/security should be the order of the day.
 
The39thStep said:
Unfortunately manchester 'AFA' doesn't
Click to expand...

ayatollah said:
The core point made in BTF, that the Left needs to get into real community based political action in the White Working Class at grass roots level . as with the IWCA initiative, remains totally valid however, regardless of the re-emergence or not of violent street fascism on the back of generalised unrest produced by the new era of destabilised capitalism.
Click to expand...

Manchester 'AFA' does not believe in the above point written by ayatollah? In post#1133 it looks like you are quoting me out of context?
 
Where is the evidence that Manchestre AFA are attempting to implement "The core point made in BTF, that the Left needs to get into real community based political action in the White Working Class at grass roots level . as with the IWCA initiative"

If anything it is stuck in a pastiche of the 1980s rhetoric of the original Manchester AFA rather than AFAs conclusion of the need for a political alternative in working class communities. ie MAFA have given out anti BNP leaflets, turned up to provide security at a Climate Change barbecue, made some T shirts and badges ( including Free Palestine one) , gone on a few anti EDL demos etc but no attempts at IWCA type work.

I might be mistaken , you might be looking at a pilot site . If I am tell me.
 
The39thStep said:
Where is the evidence that Manchestre AFA are attempting to implement "The core point made in BTF, that the Left needs to get into real community based political action in the White Working Class at grass roots level . as with the IWCA initiative"
Click to expand...


I didn't say they were. I was just pointing out that their website had a report(which has since been slated as being OTT) about the trouble at the rage against racism gig when some Bradford EDL turned up. I have no affiliations with MAFA.
 
it's just the way the quoting works here, it doesn't quote any quotes that were in the quote being quoted, and it was the quote within the quote that chuck was referring to
 
Yeah you're right. I am actually in agreement with the filling the vacuum document and though. However MAFA is a collection of trotskyists, anarchists, labour party and others. MAFA can not provide a working class electoral challenge to the BNP. However is can provide other alternatives but there must be a mass working class alternative, something totally new in my opinion.

I didn't mean to miss quote you. Still don't know the workings of Urban yet. I just clicked the reply with quote button.
 
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