BBC - Owen Jones
- Thread starter Zabo
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LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Hmmm, I hate to not be a hater, and I can't stand his politics, but I do think that FB post of his is pretty fair in lots of ways.
I think the behavior of some people on social media is fucking poisonous, the level of 'debate' often horrendous and pointless, and being subjected to that on a daily basis (as it seems he is) must be really depressing and exhausting.
I think the behavior of some people on social media is fucking poisonous, the level of 'debate' often horrendous and pointless, and being subjected to that on a daily basis (as it seems he is) must be really depressing and exhausting.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
Nobody can deny that you're right about some folk on social media. People are harassed and picked on, definitely. Trouble is, he doesn't mind using his platform, one much larger than most, to dish it out when it suits him. The problem being that, on social media, doing that is effectively calling out anyone who feels slighted in addition to the usual trolls and casual 'drive-by' nasties as well.
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
His attitude to people disagreeing with him isn't exactly polite. He's also not unknown for provocative tweets that invite invective, which he then complains about. Nobody is condoning the serious threats/abuse/harassment that happens on social media, but there's a difference between that and either honest disagreement or everyday rough-and-tumble that you'd expect online.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I don't think he's at all aggressive on social. If there's anything wrong it's that he responds to things which are clearly in bad faith. Social does make it harder to distinguish between people who are asking questions seriously and people who are just trolling, and I'm not going to criticise somebody for that. It also has no filtering mechanism for comments - you'll be presented with questions from trolls and rational folk in the same list.
That Mark Fisher piece about the vampires castle nails this (also written as a response to how people dealt with Jones online). I don't really agree with Fisher about jones' importance, but everything else in there is bang on.
Exiting the Vampire Castle
Exiting the Vampire Castle
Bakunin
I am Noodle's bitch.
True, and you don't have the personal, face-to-face clues like tone of voice, facial expression, inflection to guide you. How something looks on a screen and how it would sound face-to-face could be very different things.
phillm
Trolling through Life (TM)
Craig Murray's take...
Jeremy Corbyn should not now be abandoned. I was saddened to see Owen Jones stab him in the back. Jones appears sadly set on the trajectory typically caused by the salary of a Guardian columnist. He will now increasingly retreat into identity politics rather than the cause of universal social justice. I give it eight years before he spends his entire time attacking the left as having “lost their way”.
The Disappearing Prime Minister - Craig Murray
Jeremy Corbyn should not now be abandoned. I was saddened to see Owen Jones stab him in the back. Jones appears sadly set on the trajectory typically caused by the salary of a Guardian columnist. He will now increasingly retreat into identity politics rather than the cause of universal social justice. I give it eight years before he spends his entire time attacking the left as having “lost their way”.
The Disappearing Prime Minister - Craig Murray
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
centrist thinly-concealed pro-EU pap
The Conservative party has plunged this country into existential crisis. Britain’s internal divisions may not have been invented by Cameron – the sense of abandonment, decline and general disillusionment felt by many of Britain’s communities long pre-date the Cameroons – but both Cameron and his successor are chief architects of Chaotic Britain. And even that name may have to change if a significant portion of the population opts to flee the union.
We are on course for deeply acrimonious talks with EU countries who are increasingly fed up with us and in no mood to give us good terms. The possibility of no deal is real, turning Britain into a tax haven stripped of social provision
Britain is in chaos – and now the Tories may destroy the union | Owen Jones
No deal is no better or worse than deal.
The Conservative party has plunged this country into existential crisis. Britain’s internal divisions may not have been invented by Cameron – the sense of abandonment, decline and general disillusionment felt by many of Britain’s communities long pre-date the Cameroons – but both Cameron and his successor are chief architects of Chaotic Britain. And even that name may have to change if a significant portion of the population opts to flee the union.
We are on course for deeply acrimonious talks with EU countries who are increasingly fed up with us and in no mood to give us good terms. The possibility of no deal is real, turning Britain into a tax haven stripped of social provision
Britain is in chaos – and now the Tories may destroy the union | Owen Jones
No deal is no better or worse than deal.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
Don't agree with all of that by any stretch, but an interesting read nonetheless. Thanks.
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
He hasn't 'dished it out' it's true. His favoured tactic was to retweet those who disagree with him and let his insane/frothing followers do the dishing out.
His current predicament is man bites dog stuff.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
this obviously true, but I'd always have a little look at the latest OJ based hoopla on twitter, and just did not see 'poisonous behviour' swirling around, did you / did others ,and I just wasn't following it closely enough ?
I deffo saw pissed off people venting after the Labour Friends of Israel spat, but again, would not describe it as poisonous, it felt like v well deserved criticism, and rejection of his weak defence.
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cantsin
Well-Known Member
recently, he went fairly radio rental on Aaron Bastani, then swiftly deleted - I saw another one, have forgotten , and again, no doubt deleted.
Proves nothing, but felt like he was getting a bit high handed about it all , though no doubt it would be exhausting from his side.
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
No offence, but I hate that article with a passion. It's a huge example of the necessity of everything he's trying to slag off.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I think it was easier to parse at the time (2013) - I remember it being roundly slagged off as a reactionary response to things which are now considered pretty unremarkable (trans rights, feminist response that didn't excuse someone for their valued role in the community, intersectionalism generally) and the comments under it bear that out. That was its role at the time, when that was starting to appear on social.
Now it just looks antiquated: starting with the impassioned defence of Russell Brand - above and beyond how he defended himself - and then continuing to the straw-man attacks and calling of everyone who doesn't subscribe to a very narrow sort of analysis a "liberal" who actively opposes class-based analysis. At great length.
I guess we can disagree with some of the detail, and much of (not all) the stuff about Brand seems quite quaint - but I think the kind of behaviour he identifies was and remains a significant stumbling block, and not just on the part of the identarian liberals he rails against - it isn't the liberals driving Owen Jones off twitter. You see that kind of stuff from all sides.
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
Evidence please
cantsin
Well-Known Member
first search on Titter Jones vs Bastani last week :
"So did Owen Jones compare Aaron Bastani to Donald Trump, then delete it 'cos he didn't want to cause 'beef'?"
answer was, yes, and not in some calm 'evaluation of populism on the margins' type thing, Jones was v riled up about not v much, and went off on one .
Doesn't prove anything, just a recent example
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
There are beacons of hope. The Turner Contemporary gallery opened in Margate in 2011; two years later, the acclaimed Ramsgate Music Hall opened its doors too. But still the headline speaks of loss and decline, of a general lack of confidence in a better future. This pessimism, it strikes me, was what drove so many here to vote Brexit. It’s a pessimism that is lethal in its toxicity.
This is the reality and the challenge, for there is nothing inevitable about decline in our coastal communities. They need money and attention: perhaps a fresh start. When that occurs, as was the case with London’s Olympic Park, metamorphosis happens quickly. And if ever there is a will, there may be a way. The New Economics Foundation, for example, has launched a “blue New Deal” to regenerate coastal Britain, from sustainable fisheries to investing in renewable energy. It’s just a start, but it’s the kind of thinking that is badly needed. Brexitland-on-Sea might be a different place if it felt that someone was listening.
How can this be written with a straight face?
Gallery, concert venue, park and this "Blue New Deal" seems to be the total opposite of the New Deal it's a series of medium scale businesses and ways to promote them:
The Wales Coast App has been developed by the environmental charity Keep Wales Tidy to offer visitors to the Wales coast all the information they need to fully explore and enjoy what coastal Wales has to offer, as well as supporting the local economies of Welsh coastal communities.
The App contains detailed, easy to use information on over 150 beaches, including beach access, the awards they hold, beach facilities, parking, lifeguards, weather updates and tide times, as well as nearby wildlife and historical attractions.
Using GPS technology, the app routes the entire Wales Coast Path, enabling users to find the nearest access point to the iconic path whilst mapping detail such as gradient, stiles and gates ensuring that walkers of all levels can tackle sections to match their expectations.
By offering a platform for tourism businesses, the app aims to boost local coastal economies by allowing them to connect with new audiences and through smartphone technology, guide customers directly to their doors.
The social democrats don't believe in social democracy any more.
This is the reality and the challenge, for there is nothing inevitable about decline in our coastal communities. They need money and attention: perhaps a fresh start. When that occurs, as was the case with London’s Olympic Park, metamorphosis happens quickly. And if ever there is a will, there may be a way. The New Economics Foundation, for example, has launched a “blue New Deal” to regenerate coastal Britain, from sustainable fisheries to investing in renewable energy. It’s just a start, but it’s the kind of thinking that is badly needed. Brexitland-on-Sea might be a different place if it felt that someone was listening.
How can this be written with a straight face?
Gallery, concert venue, park and this "Blue New Deal" seems to be the total opposite of the New Deal it's a series of medium scale businesses and ways to promote them:
The Wales Coast App has been developed by the environmental charity Keep Wales Tidy to offer visitors to the Wales coast all the information they need to fully explore and enjoy what coastal Wales has to offer, as well as supporting the local economies of Welsh coastal communities.
The App contains detailed, easy to use information on over 150 beaches, including beach access, the awards they hold, beach facilities, parking, lifeguards, weather updates and tide times, as well as nearby wildlife and historical attractions.
Using GPS technology, the app routes the entire Wales Coast Path, enabling users to find the nearest access point to the iconic path whilst mapping detail such as gradient, stiles and gates ensuring that walkers of all levels can tackle sections to match their expectations.
By offering a platform for tourism businesses, the app aims to boost local coastal economies by allowing them to connect with new audiences and through smartphone technology, guide customers directly to their doors.
The social democrats don't believe in social democracy any more.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
As I drive around the borough with Darren Rodwell – who grew up on a local estate and now leads the council – he speaks passionately about efforts to resist government policy.
...
Yet it’s difficult not to sympathise with a council that has limited options with a government determined to shred social housing.
"Efforts to resist government policy" means set up private non-electable firm using the 2011 Act introduced by the Conservative government to give property for rent on annual contracts only to those with secure employment contracts at 80% of market rates.
Make believe soft Labour pap
...
Yet it’s difficult not to sympathise with a council that has limited options with a government determined to shred social housing.
"Efforts to resist government policy" means set up private non-electable firm using the 2011 Act introduced by the Conservative government to give property for rent on annual contracts only to those with secure employment contracts at 80% of market rates.
Make believe soft Labour pap
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Thrte is something about this line right at the top.
Sounds like he is on safari or something. Probably just being over-sensative.
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