BBC - Owen Jones

[Smokeandsteam]

No surprise on the 'lessons' he draws given his politis and the trajectory he's on. What raises an eyebrow is Jones (and presumably those around him) realisation that the right are making some headway filling the vaccuum and the associated comments regarding the left and its remoteness from the class.

 

[bemused]

Whenever a read a Owen Jones piece all I can hear is his whiny voice.

 

[Smoking kills]

"University-educated middle-class professionals may take to Twitter to vent, but it is their cultural distance from working-class communities that May seeks to exploit"

An unusually perceptive piece from Owen Jones who seems to have noticed (20 odd years later than others it must be said) the absence of working class political representation and that it is the right who are orientating to it more effectively.

There’s a fight over working-class voters. Labour must not lose it | Owen Jones

 

[Smoking kills]

Tbf he did write book called "Chavs" about pretty much just that.

 

[James McFadden]

Tbf he did write book called "Chavs" about pretty much just that.

Yeah, but that's where you've fucked up by not realising 'Chavs' was an experiment in stylised pontificating through Owen channelling something he describes as a 'working class perspective'. The entire thing was a piece of coursework in creative writing.

By some fuckin fluke some daft cunt somewhere thought it was genuine, Owen thought WTF? Better than working for a living, and the rest is history. He's not even gay- he just doesn't really get out. He spends most of the day knitting quilts with Polly Toynbee and, every so often, one of them nips down Londis for another bottle of Old English and, while they're there, they take random snaps of 'poor people' because if you catch a good one you can stare into the eyes and share the suffering and angst...and that's what makes you write better..honest...we weren't posh..we never had more than 2 cars, and a 4 bedroom detached in Stockport-with extensive grounds-in the 90s is sorta a box room under the stairs in Privett Drive, Peckham, these days...cunt.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

The entire thing was a piece of coursework in creative writing.

You could save yourself so much time!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[James McFadden]

You could save yourself so much time!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

Oh Louis...if only the others had your powers of comprehension.

 

[rekil]

Are you not #inspired comrades?

 

[DotCommunist]

pulpit pounding from the checkshirted man. Feel his anger

 

[Beats & Pieces]

The fake anger, the fake outrage. 'The horror, the horror'.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

interesting to see people like Owen Jones drawing the same conclusions as some of us did 15-20 years ago (and for which people like Owen Jones attacked us at the time).

There are however two flaws in his argument.

First, he underplays the extent to which working class communities have mentally abandoned labour. When Labour - under Blair - consciously, almost proudly, turned its back on the working class the working class responded in kind. Nothing that has happened since has rebuilt the bridges burned.

Second, under Corbyn Labour is actually travelling in the opposite direction to that which Jones demands. Both Corbyn and his key allies are intellectually and politically signed up to free movement, and continue to ascribe progressive characteristics to what is a key tenet of the EU new-liberal project.

Labour would save the NHS – but the NHS won’t save Labour | Owen Jones

 

[brogdale]

interesting to see people like Owen Jones drawing the same conclusions as some of us did 15-20 years ago (and for which people like Owen Jones attacked us at the time).

There are however two flaws in his argument.

First, he underplays the extent to which working class communities have mentally abandoned labour. When Labour - under Blair - consciously, almost proudly, turned its back on the working class the working class responded in kind. Nothing that has happened since has rebuilt the bridges burned.

Second, under Corbyn Labour is actually travelling in the opposite direction to that which Jones demands. Both Corbyn and his key allies are intellectually and politically signed up to free movement, and continue to ascribe progressive characteristics to what is a key tenet of the EU new-liberal project.

Labour would save the NHS – but the NHS won’t save Labour | Owen Jones

Yes, but in attempting to analyse "where our people are at" Jones, yet again overlooks the economic basis for addressing free movement of labour, preferring to concentrate on his perceived cultural aspects of 'social conservatism'. Perhaps Labour need to start seeing the world from the neoliberal perspective before they can articulate a response to its effects?

Streeck might offer them a glimpse...

 

[Smokeandsteam]

I noticed his multiple references to 'social conservatism'.

I presume he identifies these working class people in the focus groups as socially conservative as they are not pacifists (defence), have a strong beleif in work (welfare) and do not support a policy that does not operate in their interests (free movement/immigration).

I always have to laugh when people from middle class, white, backgrounds lambast mixed, vibrant working class communties for their refusal to be as 'tolerant' as they are.

 

[treelover]

Owen Jones is refusing to speak/support tomorrows Trump demo, because of the leading role of the SWP in it and their history of 'rape culture'

on his FB page

Wow,

 

[treelover]

I'm sorry, I have to take on some of the comments here, because they are completely unacceptable. Covering up rape is not an issue to simply have a difference of opinion over. It is disgusting. It is vile. It is abhorrent. It is repulsive. It must be driven from the left. There is no unity to have with a cult which covers up rape. No-one on the left should work with an organisation that covered up rape. That anyone disagrees with this and places themselves on the left is completely and utterly wrong, and there is nothing more to be said on this.

To his detractors, pretty robust stuff.

 

[chilango]

To his detractors, pretty robust stuff.

Shoulda used the platform to say that.

 

[treelover]

do you mean on Monday?

 

[chilango]

do you mean on Monday?

I mean the platform he's refusing to speak from co of the SWP.

 

[treelover]

Shoulda used the platform to say that.

Wow, that would have been something.

 

[chilango]

Wow, that would have been something.

It would've been more useful.

 

[19force8]

Owen Jones is refusing to speak/support tomorrows Trump demo, because of the leading role of the SWP in it and their history of 'rape culture'

on his FB page

Wow,

I've just got back from an evening in London with one of my kids. Picked up a copy of the Standard on my way home only to see OJ bigging himself up as usual.

This was him on Monday:

Surrounded by SWP and Stand Up To Racism placards at the demonstration he "called," but didn't think to arrange a PA system. Doesn't seem to have had a problem associating with the SWP when he needs their mike to address the crowd.*

Worthless gobshite!

* According to eldest child who was there.

 

[pengaleng]

whys people listening to ron weasley?

 

[ska invita]

they did arrange a pa, but the hire company fucked up at the 11th hour.

can happen at the best of times, even more likely if you arrange something this big last minute

 

[19force8]

they did arrange a pa, but the hire company fucked up at the 11th hour.

can happen at the best of times, even more likely if you arrange something this big last minute

Fair enough.

So the choice was walk away or accept the help of a "disgusting, vile, abhorrent, repulsive" group who "must be driven from the left."

Hmmm.

 

[crossthebreeze]

I've just got back from an evening in London with one of my kids. Picked up a copy of the Standard on my way home only to see OJ bigging himself up as usual.

This was him on Monday:

Surrounded by SWP and Stand Up To Racism placards at the demonstration he "called," but didn't think to arrange a PA system. Doesn't seem to have had a problem associating with the SWP when he needs their mike to address the crowd.*

Worthless gobshite!

* According to eldest child who was there.

Various feminists, including some of Sisters Uncut, have been acting on social media this week by circulating the open letter from last October asking speakers to withdraw from a Stand Up To Racism event, and pointing out that SUTR and UAF etc are SWP fronts or coalitions in which they are prominent, and the SUTR/SWP involvement in the anti-trump stuff.

I often get annoyed with OJ, but i think credit where its due, he's obviously listened and learnt this week. Glad he's stood up against them now - unlike a lot of the left of Labour and the labour-aligned left grouplets who have kept working with the SWP through SUTR and other groups.

 

[YouSir]

Who's actually organizing the embassy protest? Fairly sure it's not just SWP.

 

[19force8]

Various feminists, including some of Sisters Uncut, have been acting on social media this week by circulating the open letter from last October asking speakers to withdraw from a Stand Up To Racism event, and pointing out that SUTR and UAF etc are SWP fronts or coalitions in which they are prominent, and the SUTR/SWP involvement in the anti-trump stuff.

I often get annoyed with OJ, but i think credit where its due, he's obviously listened and learnt this week. Glad he's stood up against them now - unlike a lot of the left of Labour and the labour-aligned left grouplets who have kept working with the SWP through SUTR and other groups.

He denounced SUTR last October despite having worked with them before that. Where were these fabulous principles of his on Monday?

This whole thing is about opportunism and sectarianism. He's channelling the sectarian demands of a small section of the left as cover for his own drift to the right.

 

[crossthebreeze]

He denounced SUTR last October despite having worked with them before that. Where were these fabulous principles of his on Monday?

This whole thing is about opportunism and sectarianism. He's channelling the sectarian demands of a small section of the left as cover for his own drift to the right.

Ah, i hadn't realised he'd already denounced them in October. I had assumed that he'd been (belatedly) persuaded this week. That puts a different spin on things.

I don't think its sectarian to refuse to work with the SWP. Its about taking a stance against violence against women and defending ourselves against an unpleasant cult of bullies (who are also the most sectarian group i've come across).

 

[19force8]

Ah, i hadn't realised he'd already denounced them in October. I had assumed that he'd been (belatedly) persuaded this week. That puts a different spin on things.

I don't think its sectarian to refuse to work with the SWP. Its about taking a stance against violence against women and defending ourselves against an unpleasant cult of bullies (who are also the most sectarian group i've come across).

Sectarianism is always based on important principles, that's the tragedy of it.

I've worked alongside the SWP (and others) locally and nationally in my union and various campaigns over more than 20 years. I don't recognise the bullying violent sectarians you describe at all. If anything they're the least sectarian of the left groups I've come across, especially so when compared to the behaviour of some in the Labour Party.

E2A: Also, we're not just talking about "refusing to work with the SWP" which is a valid choice, imo. But actively trying to sabotage initiatives around important issues just because they're involved at some level is, again imo, the height of sectarian irresponsibility.

 

[J Ed]

A lot of Owen Jones' critics seem to be saying that his opposition to working with SWP front groups is due to his 'racism'. Wonderful, sophisticated good faith positions taken by all.