krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
A homophobot
BBC - Owen Jones
- Thread starter Zabo
- Start date
A homophobot
Combustible
Well-Known Member
In the case of Al-Qaeda it was my understanding that there were a wide range of levels of command and support, from those who operated on orders from the leadership, to those who were given training and guidance but then left to their own devices, to those who were essentially "self radicalised" and acted by themselves. It seems pretty likely there could be similar different levels for IS, particularly given their propaganda efforts.
Many people seem to be determined to cast this killer as one or the other, either as a typical American spree killer driven by his own neurosis, insecurities and misanthropy or a terrorist who is driven by an external foreign islamic ideology. But in reality I'm not sure the two can always be separated. I don't think you can read too much into the fact he didn't know the difference between IS and Hezbollah, I'm sure there were plenty of idiots who made their way to Syria to join IS who didn't have much of a clue about the politics of the region.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Eh? So now Dotski's a homophobe too?
Has everyone just gone fucking mad this week?
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Eh? So now Dotski's a homophobe too?
Has everyone just gone fucking mad this week?
Of course he's not! I wasn't meaning him.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
"Lets get rid of them - NOW!"
Guest speaker at the Husseni Islamic Centre in Orlando.
April 2016
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Homophobe is still homophobe. "Religion" is still secondary.
What about a religion that promotes homophobia?
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Well quite. But not sure why you're saying religion is secondary. Not sure we know enough to say that.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Sure and we don't know whether he targeted it due to his religious beliefs or due to non-religious homophobia. We do know he phoned 911 claiming allegiance to IS though.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
There was 15 people killed in a Mexican gay bar the other day; the official story is it was a drug thing. But people are challenging that, trying to hilight the homophobic angle.
He targetted the Pulse because he's a homophobe. Pure and simple - a homophobe is a homophobe is a homophobe. The other stuff, whilst definitely factors, are secondary.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
what; there's levels of homophobia?
Combustible
Well-Known Member
But it's not that simple. Homophobes are not born homophobic. And many homophobes as horrible as they are do not kill anyone, nevermind 49 people.
Winot
I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint
Homophobe + easy access to automatic weaponry = bad combination.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
And there are many gay people who have died at the hands of a homophobe and/or homophobes.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
Couldn't agree more.
Combustible
Well-Known Member
Of course it is but many homophobes in the US also have easy access to automatic weaponry.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
And?
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
We all know that if the situation was reversed and it was Muslims who were the victims you would not be so keen to strip the attacker of his religious/political identity.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well there are, for sure, but that's not the point. As mentioned above, the homophobia probably doesn't stand alone, devoid of any other context.
Take Copeland and the Admiral Duncan bombing. Was that a homophobic attack plain and simple, or was he a nazi scumbag with mental health issues too?
He also attacked ethnic minorities in Brick Lane and Brixton. Did he hate blacks and gays and become a nazi because of that, or did his nazi sympathies lead him to kill blacks and gays?
So, politically motivated or homophobic? What makes it more one than the other?
There are loads of questions, it's not simple at all.
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Combustible
Well-Known Member
And therefore your explanation that he attacked the nightclub simply because he was a homophobe doesn't really explain a lot and more to the point, given the lack of information I don't see how you can know what factors did or did not lead to him doing what he did.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
On the index of victims of homophobic crime in America show us where there is a precedent for an attacker killing dozens of strangers who it turned out was gay himself?
Accordingly, in order for your stance not to appear entirely ridiculous there simply has to be precedent. Over to you.
Joe Reilly
Well-Known Member
This may be a surprise to you but the Muslim world generally has it the other way round.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Sorry, but where has this supposed denial that it was a homophobic attack, driven by islamism to some unknowable extent, come from? One remark from someone storming out of a studio? There has been no such denial, every report I've seen mentions his pledge to Isis or other such links. The point about the importance of saying it was a homophobic attack isn't to deny that it was islamist, it is to stop right wingers, who are undoubted homophobes, trying to say 'well it was a gay club, but it really could have been anywhere - one of us' - ie not on of 'them'. As OJ was pointing out before leaving, no one would dream of saying the attack on the bakery in Paris wasn't anti-semitic, even tho it was islamist as well.
And even if you dont go along with that, it's an act of basic solidarity, acknowledging which community has been affected.
And even if you dont go along with that, it's an act of basic solidarity, acknowledging which community has been affected.
krtek a houby
Anger is Hi-NRG
I have not denied that religion may well have been a factor.
But he targetted a gay venue. He murdered people because of their sexuality as well as any other motives.
If a Christian did the same would his homophobia be questioned at all?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
No one's questioning his homophobia, krtek.
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