Aristocrat's daughter on the run with sex offender and newborn

[bimble]

I'm getting my info from the BBC website, and as far as I can see the police are still saying they fear the baby has come to serious harm, which I interpret as meaning they don't actually know if it's alive or dead, far less when it died.

And I thought they were charged with manslaughter as soon as they were arrested.

Obviously the longer they're in custody without the baby being found alive, the more likely it's dead, but at this stage no one (apart from the parents) really knows anything for sure.

No manslaughter was a later addition. They don’t know if it’s dead they do know and explain that the baby’s death (if it had not already happened beforehand) has increased in likeliness since the arrest.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yeah that's exactly what I said Take a deep breath and read what I wrote. If the baby is with someone else then that's fine (disclaimers here obvs). If they've left the baby alone, then that in and of itself is not fine (in UK law, before you start with what you can't even pop to the toilet nonsense). BUT considering how much they clearly wanted to keep this baby in whatever troubled way that's been, I doubt that's what has happened. Sadly I suspect they were without the baby because it isn't alive, for which I hope they get support.

Fucks sake.

IF they were camping in freezing temperatures all this time with baby the prospects don’t look good for child. I hope they have passed the infant on somewhere for care.

 

[andysays]

No manslaughter was a later addition. They don’t know if it’s dead they do know and explain that the baby’s death (if it had not already happened beforehand) has increased in likeliness since the arrest.

Yeah, you're right about the manslaughter bit. I just read this

They were initially arrested on suspicion of child neglect but were re-arrested on Tuesday on suspicion of gross negligence manslaughter.

 

[cupid_stunt]

No manslaughter was a later addition. They don’t know if it’s dead they do know and explain that the baby’s death (if it had not already happened beforehand) has increased in likeliness since the arrest.

I think you are reading far too much between the lines TBH.

They think the chances of the baby being dead has increased because they will not explain where it is after being arrested, not that any death has occurred since or because of the arrest.

 

[JimW]

Yeah, you're right about the manslaughter bit. I just read this

That re-arrest would reset the custody clock I suppose.

 

[bimble]

I think you are reading far too much between the lines TBH.

They think the chances of the baby being dead has increased because they will not explain where it is after being arrested, not that any death has occurred since or because of the arrest.

Look at the police’s own explanation of why they ‘further arrested’ them for manslaughter. I’m not looking for a fight, it’s just all really upsetting tbh. IF this couple kept the baby alive for weeks and it transpires that it died since their arrest that would I think be the worst of all worlds.

 

[ddraig]

"suspicion of manslaughter" not "manslaughter"

 

[bluescreen]

"suspicion of manslaughter" not "manslaughter"

Could be - and this is pure speculation (ie, wrong, but this is urban) - that plod were hoping the more serious charge would prompt denial and reluctant co-operation. Psychology not always their strong point when dealing with atypical members of the public.

 

[andysays]

Look at the police’s own explanation of why they ‘further arrested’ them for manslaughter. I’m not looking for a fight, it’s just all really upsetting tbh. IF this couple kept the baby alive for weeks and it transpires that it died since their arrest that would I think be the worst of all worlds.

Where can we find this explanation?

The BBC story only has the bit I quoted earlier with no explanation.

 

[Duncan2]

one thing we can be sure of is that Plod will consider the safety of the infant before convenience of the parents.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Look at the police’s own explanation of why they ‘further arrested’ them for manslaughter. I’m not looking for a fight, it’s just all really upsetting tbh. IF this couple kept the baby alive for weeks and it transpires that it died since their arrest that would I think be the worst of all worlds.

Nothing in the police’s own explanation suggests what you are suggesting.

 

[Rebelda]

IF they were camping in freezing temperatures all this time with baby the prospects don’t look good for child. I hope they have passed the infant on somewhere for care.

Yes, although a baby could well be fine wrapped up, in a sling for body heat and under a coat. Provided it's fed etc etc. (Ignoring all the likely psycho-social context here). I really worry for baby more via the impact on mum - on the move constantly, often on foot, before and after birth. That alone is going to do a number on her physical and mental health. I think about how I felt after childbirth and run cold thinking of her. I realise what a bleeding heart I'm being here, the whole thing screams desperation to me and is very very sad.

 

[bimble]

Where can we find this explanation?

The BBC story only has the bit I quoted earlier with no explanation.

This link has the quotes:

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested over 'gross negligence manslaughter'

Police said more than 200 officers are currently taking part in the search operation to find the missing baby

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

 

[Tones]

I suppose the longer it went without them saying where the kid was, the more likely it was already dead. Else they would have said where it was, to prevent it dying whilst they were in custody.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yes, although a baby could well be fine wrapped up, in a sling for body heat and under a coat. Provided it's fed etc etc. (Ignoring all the likely psycho-social context here). I really worry for baby more via the impact on mum - on the move constantly, often on foot, before and after birth. That alone is going to do a number on her physical and mental health. I think about how I felt after childbirth and run cold thinking of her. I realise what a bleeding heart I'm being here, the whole thing screams desperation to me and is very very sad.

No you’re not. Nobody is telling us what would cause them to take the actions they have so it’s just flummoxing to understand why either father or mother would have chosen this course of action, but there must be one.

 

[bimble]

I suppose the longer it went without them saying where the kid was, the more likely it was already dead. Else they would have said where it was, to prevent it dying whilst they were in custody.

If they were rational actors yes. But they’re not, which shouldn’t have astonished the police. Was it beyond their capabilities to covertly follow a man and woman once located .

 

[andysays]

This link has the quotes:

Constance Marten and Mark Gordon arrested over 'gross negligence manslaughter'

Police said more than 200 officers are currently taking part in the search operation to find the missing baby

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk

View attachment 365055View attachment 365056

That doesn't really say what you originally claimed, ie

On a train did post screenshot . Police statements explained they added manslaughter to neglect due to the length of custody making baby’s survival less likely

But to be honest I don't really want to spend any more time or mental energy on this case, so I'm leaving the thread here

 

[Tones]

If they were rational actors yes. But they’re not, which shouldn’t have astonished the police. Was it beyond their capabilities to covertly follow a man and woman once located .

We don't know they didn't for a while.

 

[bimble]

We don't know they didn't for a while.

Yes we do. From reported sighting to arrest was 5 minutes I think I read somewhere.

 

[Pickman's model]

If they were rational actors yes. But they’re not, which shouldn’t have astonished the police. Was it beyond their capabilities to covertly follow a man and woman once located .

do you think sussex cops have plainclothes teams sitting round at hq twiddling their thumbs and eating doughnuts?

 

[bimble]

do you think sussex cops have plainclothes teams sitting round at hq twiddling their thumbs and eating doughnuts?

They’ve got 200 officers scrambling about now looking in sheds for a baby.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Yes we do. From reported sighting to arrest was 5 minutes I think I read somewhere.

Give it up.

 

[Duncan2]

We don't know they didn't for a while.

and they might well have thought that the quickest way to find the infant would be to ask the parents.
what pickmans said

 

[Pickman's model]

They’ve got 200 officers scrambling about now looking in sheds for a baby.

Yeh, uniformed ones. You don't become good at following someone by simply putting on mufti. They'd use a team of cops so if one's made the pursuit can carry on.

 

[Pickman's model]

and they might well have thought that the quickest way to find the infant would be to ask the parents.

And usually they'd be right

 

[bimble]

Give it up.

What? Look it up if you care. Six minutes not 5.

I feel like I’m in a parallel urban where the police will be defended at every turn it’s a bit weird.

 

[Pickman's model]

What? Look it up if you care. I feel like I’m in a parallel urban where the police will be defended at every turn it’s a bit weird.

If you engaged brain you'd realise you can't whistle up a load of people and deploy them at a moment's notice. It's not defending the police, it's trying to explain to you what you're asking them to do isn't on the cards.

 

[Idaho]

Very strange bunfight on this thread. I don't understand how people have become so antagonistically opinionated.

 

[Pickman's model]

Very strange bunfight on this thread. I don't understand how people have become so antagonistically opinionated.

That doesn't surprise me

 

[bimble]

I’ll leave it. Find the whole thing very upsetting. Was not looking for a fight as I said ages ago.