Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no indeed. your dishonesty is there for all to see, my opinion on your stupidity - well, that's my opinion but nothing i've seen from you in 16 years has given me pause to reconsider.
Are you an anarchist but not a member of an anarchist organisation?
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Never change, pickmans
HoratioCuthbert
Deep seated inconsequence
P
I've seen nothing in 16 years to suggest he will, it's cool!
redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Bring back this
andysays
Love and solidarity
If we can't create tram spotter manuals, it's not my revolution...
Jeff Robinson
Marxist-Lentilist: Jackboots and Jackfruit
As at least one person has observed, BA would make an excellent cryptic crossword clue writer.
petee
no gods, no malarkey
that's a generous way of putting it.
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
Urban is all the poorer for Butchers not posting, someone with true conviction and has prompted me to regularly re-assess my own positions and understanding of issues, especially where my arguments were found wanting.
Agent Sparrow
the age of slippers and migraines
So, where does one stand if they answer all the questions in alignment with anarchism apart from the first part of the last one, with their answer being
Are You An Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You!
David Graeber Are You An Anarchist? The Answer May Surprise You! 2000
“well not essentially selfish and bad but not intrinsically good and collective either - people as individuals and groups are a complex mixture of both and whilst society (and particularly inequality) is hugely important in driving what they do, IMPO I’ve seen many examples of kind and prosocial behaviour in individuals and small groups but mass behaviour so easily falls towards self serving “fuck everyone else” actions, and I’ve no idea if that can changed. Also on a biopsychosocisial perspective we probably don’t have much (if any) free will.”
Asking for a friend
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
I think your friend is OK then. If people's nature is wholly or partly dependent on the culture of the society they exist in, there is a good reason to maximise the elements in that society that will generate solidarity etc. Which is not to say that everyone and everything will be perfect, far from it.So, where does one stand if they answer all the questions in alignment with anarchism apart from the first part of the last one, with their answer being
“well not essentially selfish and bad but not intrinsically good and collective either - people as individuals and groups are a complex mixture of both and whilst society (and particularly inequality) is hugely important in driving what they do, IMPO I’ve seen many examples of kind and prosocial behaviour in individuals and small groups but mass behaviour so easily falls towards self serving “fuck everyone else” actions, and I’ve no idea if that can changed. Also on a biopsychosocisial perspective we probably don’t have much (if any) free will.”
Asking for a friend
Personally this Q is not a road I would go down. If people are "fundamentally corrupt and evil" then there is even more reason not to give any of them vast amounts of power and wealth.
Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
A biopsychosocial approach would also tell us that poverty, top-down coercion, and hostile social/interpersonal realities can and will make people mentally and physically ill. Or to paraphrase Horner Simpson in a treehouse of horrror episode “no money, no power, and no solidarity makes us go crazy”. If nothing else, there’s a mental/physical health imperative to build a society without poverty, coercion and dog-eat-dog social relationships (an anarcho-communist society perhaps?)
As to the comment about human nature tending towards ‘fuck everyone else’ (at least on a mass level), as I’ve (admittedly) droned on about here and elsewhere, a problem with activist groups, anarchist or otherwise, is that they have more then their fair share of people who are actually very able, but who have struggled to develop healthy, happy relationships with their peers/families/etc, and so have, even if they mask it well, a pessimistic sense of human nature.
So you’ll get a lot of the ‘problems with living’/neurotic types that LDC mentioned, who play out their dislike/distrust of people by attacking those around them for their ‘white (which includes Jews, bizarrely)/cis/heteronormative/abled/etc privilege (which ordinary people are too stupid to understand, apparently), or you’ll get a lot of ‘classically’ insane/psychotic types (I think Magnus said something about this) whose misanthropy is expressed through beliefs about big pharma/Rothschilds/WHO conspiracies (which ordinary people have a sheeplike obliviousness about, apparently)
It’s rude to say this I know, but at the last london anarchist bookfair I went to, there were plenty of the former within Conway hall, and plenty of the latter outside of it on the green (with the ACG standing in the middle, poetically i guess). And of course no-one I spoke to had the foggiest idea what I was talking about when I tried to explain the realities of the people I know and care about, or how their struggles ought to be thought of as rightly part of the struggle for an anarchist/communist society
Don’t get me wrong, everyone was pleasant and the conversations were fruitful in their own way, but I’m not going to go out of my way to organise in groups of either high functioning neurotics (sorry, ‘neurodivergents’), or high functioning conspiraloons. I like people too much.
As to the comment about human nature tending towards ‘fuck everyone else’ (at least on a mass level), as I’ve (admittedly) droned on about here and elsewhere, a problem with activist groups, anarchist or otherwise, is that they have more then their fair share of people who are actually very able, but who have struggled to develop healthy, happy relationships with their peers/families/etc, and so have, even if they mask it well, a pessimistic sense of human nature.
So you’ll get a lot of the ‘problems with living’/neurotic types that LDC mentioned, who play out their dislike/distrust of people by attacking those around them for their ‘white (which includes Jews, bizarrely)/cis/heteronormative/abled/etc privilege (which ordinary people are too stupid to understand, apparently), or you’ll get a lot of ‘classically’ insane/psychotic types (I think Magnus said something about this) whose misanthropy is expressed through beliefs about big pharma/Rothschilds/WHO conspiracies (which ordinary people have a sheeplike obliviousness about, apparently)
It’s rude to say this I know, but at the last london anarchist bookfair I went to, there were plenty of the former within Conway hall, and plenty of the latter outside of it on the green (with the ACG standing in the middle, poetically i guess). And of course no-one I spoke to had the foggiest idea what I was talking about when I tried to explain the realities of the people I know and care about, or how their struggles ought to be thought of as rightly part of the struggle for an anarchist/communist society
Don’t get me wrong, everyone was pleasant and the conversations were fruitful in their own way, but I’m not going to go out of my way to organise in groups of either high functioning neurotics (sorry, ‘neurodivergents’), or high functioning conspiraloons. I like people too much.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Crossposting from the WSM thread, here's a useful article from some people who are anarchists but no longer members of their former anarchist organisation:
For some reason the wc still see the legitimacy of neoliberalism even when it’s actively screwing them over. We’re going backwards.Crossposting from the WSM thread, here's a useful article from some people who are anarchists but no longer members of their former anarchist organisation:
Dom Traynor
Tino Pai
I think one of their points is really interesting as a former platformist - that the internet means there is no longer any need for a specific anarchist organisation with position papers on everything relevant. I would imagine that's right. And if it's wrong then class struggle anarchism is even more screwed given the rate at which groups form, splinter and reform right now...
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
It's both true and untrue. Breadtube for example was probably the most effective response the left managed against far-right social video output and didn't involve any org driving it, but the result is also a mess, contributing both sensible analysis and utter bollocks with little to no filter. A lack of coherent intervention in these spaces (as opposed to capture/control) can lead to them creating incoherence and furthering bad ideas on a memetic basis. I think there's still an important place for specific anarchist orgs in that sense in the current climate.
savoloysam
Pigman's pigman's ha ha charade you are..
Am I the only one who keeps reading the first four lines of this thread title to the tune of The Sex Pistols?
furluxor
snake with a claw
I'm not sure that I know what an anarchist org is.
The groups I was in that left good memories were the ones that were organised around anarchist principles but had some clearly defined activity: playing drums at protests, helping squatters, cooking and handing out free food, running a social centre, etc. In my experience, when there wasn't such a focus, people went nuts and either wanted to read unreadable books cover-to-cover or throw stones at the windows of people living in gated communities. The reasons I left groups either had to do with internal rifts (and 'solidarity quitting') or relocating/lack of time. Rifts mostly had to do with the group's inability to deal with a single disruptive person or anxiety about maintaining political purity/arguments about direction.
I was last part of such a group four years ago and I would consider joining one again.
The groups I was in that left good memories were the ones that were organised around anarchist principles but had some clearly defined activity: playing drums at protests, helping squatters, cooking and handing out free food, running a social centre, etc. In my experience, when there wasn't such a focus, people went nuts and either wanted to read unreadable books cover-to-cover or throw stones at the windows of people living in gated communities. The reasons I left groups either had to do with internal rifts (and 'solidarity quitting') or relocating/lack of time. Rifts mostly had to do with the group's inability to deal with a single disruptive person or anxiety about maintaining political purity/arguments about direction.
I was last part of such a group four years ago and I would consider joining one again.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Yeah, I think it's less "we've got the internet so there's no need for an anarchist organisation now" and more that it's worth reviewing exactly what functions an anarchist organisation aims to perform, which of those are still best suited to a membership organisation and which ones are better suited to other forms. This bit was an important caveat too:
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
If you look who has really gained from the Internet, it's not anarchists and it's not trots or stalinists or anyone 'on the left' but people on the far right - helped by social media algorithms. If you look at the anarcomnet or whatnot amateur agitator posted about in his last days here, the website seemed auld and tired, it didn't seem exciting or attractive. It's a long time since i saw an anarchist website I found enticing
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Interesting question, I suppose that it's probably a bit of generational thing to still think of the internet as mainly about discrete websites you look at in your browser rather than social media pages or whatever that exist within a third-party app. Mind you, I dunno what an example of a good anarchist instagram or tiktok page is either. I think the internet probably has been good for introducing people to ideas that they wouldn't necessarily encounter in day-to-day life, and so has probably helped give some kind of a boost to anarchism, along with Ted Kaczynski's ideas, Juche and all the rest of it, but that doesn't seem to have translated to much in terms of organisational stability.
On a related note, I see that London AFed appears to have gone into administration.
ska invita
back on the other side
just putting this here as cant think of anywhere better
Support Peter, Kaniku& other Cleveland organizers, organized by Raechel J.
Support Peter, Kaniku& other Cleveland organizers
This GoFundMe will help several Cleveland-area organizers get through
some severe or chronic health emergencies. The funds raised will be
shared between various individuals and an organization to help them meet
their needs and remain active in our movements.
Health emergencies and chronic health problems are increasingly becoming
a part of our daily life, and we need to find ways to organize support
and mutual aid not only for our movements to be inclusive but also to
face the realities of an increasingly unhealthy world and an
increasingly mercenary, poisonous, and exploitative system.
Some of the people being supported by this fundraiser prefer to remain
anonymous, but here are the bios and calls for support from three of the
beneficiaries.
Peter G just got diagnosed with a potentially fatal brain tumor. He is
scheduled for a major brain surgery that comes with a lengthy recovery
period, and after that will probably go through a program of chemo or
radiation, and after that frequent scans because of the possibility of
recurrence. He doesn’t have insurance and is reliant on financial
assistance, which requires him to remain at a poverty-level income.
Additionally, he lost his main job driving a truck because of the
seizure risk associated with the tumor. Recovery from neurosurgery and
chemo or other treatments will probably also prevent him from working
over much of the coming months.
Peter had also been supporting a friend and comrade in prison, as well
as a family member with chronic health problems. A part of his share of
this fundraiser will go to supporting those two people, and any other
funds that would put him over the limit for receiving financial
assistance will instead go to solidarity campaigns, for people in prison
or facing charges.
Peter is a lifelong anarchist writer and organizer who recently moved to
Cleveland. His recent books include The Solutions Are Already Here:
Strategies for Ecological Revolution from Below (Pluto Press),
Worshiping Power: An Anarchist View of Early State Formation (AK Press),
and the scifi novella Hermetica (Detritus Books). He writes a newsletter
at Surviving Leviathan with Peter Gelderloos | Substack
Kaniku Nu'kezi is a non-binary nomadic freedom fighter and former
protest organizer/strategist/public speaker currently based out of
Cleveland, OH. They are multiply disabled, immunocompromised, struggling
with Long Covid, and identify as politically MAD/insane. They have been
dealing with food and housing insecurity and unemployment for 2 years
(in part due to state repression and legal red tape) and need help
getting to a place of stability. Their goal is to purchase a used, well
running RV with their disabled partner so that they can expand their
capacity for community organizing again and return to a place of
financial stability that enables them to resume supporting numerous long
term mutual aid requests from various Queer, Disabled Black and
Indigenous freedom fighters, artists, and revolutionaries.
They can be followed @SoulAlchemySchool on Instagram (formerly
@AbolitionActually) where they are preparing to launch a new multimedia
zine inspired resource for values based personal development, spiritual
growth and political education during times of social, economic and
emotional upheaval. (You can look up media coverage of their former work
including an interview with DemocracyNow by searching "Lilith Sinclair"
which is their former public name from before they came out as
nonbinary.)
Cleveland Pandemic Response will also be a beneficiary of this
fundraiser. CPR, which began in March 2020, facilitates mutual aid
shares throughout Northeast Ohio. Our cooperation is built on the
understanding we are all interconnected and impacted by Covid-19.
Cleveland Pandemic Response is a non-hierarchical mutual aid group
mobilizing pandemic-related resources and information– food, masks,
hygiene items, diapers, pantry boxes, reproductive and other health care
items, and cleaning supplies– to families and individuals in the greater
Cleveland area.
Flavour
hang the bankers
Do you have any "best of" threads in mind?
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Cheers for sharing, Gelderloos really is a great and inspiring writer/thinker.
newme
Giant in Pastyland now
lol i rely on outlook to remember what work I did yesterday and then thats still wrong.I don’t have that good a memory, unfortunately, to identify individual threads
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
An update from Gelderloos:
At the end of April I had a seizure and after some scans they found a brain tumor. At the end of June I had an operation in which they took out half the tumor and confirmed the diagnosis, glioma, which is technically fatal and generally incurable, but it is treatable.
And as far as glioma goes, it doesn’t seem to be growing very fast and has a relatively contained structure, which will make treatment easier.
At the moment I’m recovering from the operation and getting ready for radiation therapy. Probably in the fall I’ll start chemo, which should continue for roughly half a year. If those go well I might not have to have more operations or more chemo for a long time, but I will have to have regular MRIs to catch it as soon as the tumor starts to come back.
Aside from medication side effects and all the weird feelings associated with having one’s skull cut open and then stapled shut, I’m feeling well. I’ve been getting so much love and support. I’ve starting a crowdfunding campaign to help generate some more resources. Even before the operation, I already would have had to pay around $190,000 as someone without insurance. I’ve gotten temporary financial assistance from the hospital, but to receive financial assistance you have to stay poor (Medicaid, for example, requires you to be below the poverty line). So I suppose it is serendipitous that I just lost most of my income: I had gotten a job here in Cleveland driving a truck, which I can no longer do because of the seizure risk. These past years I have also been supporting some people close to me who are in prison or have chronic health problems; the solidarity I’ve been receiving has made sure they have continued to be supported despite my loss of income, and the crowdfund will help with that too.
With all the similar stories I’m hearing, it’s more clear than ever that we can’t look at health on an individual level. Our health is collective, and at best, communal. It’s all of us or none of us. So, since I have a larger platform than many people do, and since I have a better chance of surviving my encounter with the medical industrial complex given the white supremacy structured into those institutions, I am sharing this crowdfunding campaign with a couple other Cleveland organizers who don’t enjoy the same privileges I do. Some of them are maintaining their privacy, but others talk about their situations and the work they do on the GoFundMe page, so give it a read.
The fundraiser will be split four or five ways, but in a spirit of solidarity and togetherness we’re trusting that the result will not be scarcity, but abundance. Everything for everyone!
Let’s keep getting stronger as a movement! That means taking better care of one another, recognizing those who are doing the real work of solidarity and healing, and fighting the structures that are poisoning us.
love and rage,
peter
p.s. if you want to read an essay from me every week or two, I’ve got a newsletter.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Since this seems like the most appropriate thread for it, might as well mention that Black Rose have a new-ish program out, if anyone fancies reading a very very long PDF from some yank platformspecifismo types:
blackrosefed.org
Have been listening to a podcast interview with them but it's buried in the middle of a much longer file and it keeps messing up in my browser when I try to find the right bit - think it's roughly from 49 minutes to 1:49 or thereabouts in this: This Is America #188: Vishal Singh on Bloody Brawls Marking Pride in SoCal; Action Camp Kicks off in Michigan
May Day 2023: Announcing Our Program
This year we mark May Day with the release of our organization's political program 'Turning the Tide'.
Have been listening to a podcast interview with them but it's buried in the middle of a much longer file and it keeps messing up in my browser when I try to find the right bit - think it's roughly from 49 minutes to 1:49 or thereabouts in this: This Is America #188: Vishal Singh on Bloody Brawls Marking Pride in SoCal; Action Camp Kicks off in Michigan
I've been part of anarchist & anarcho-syndicalist orgs. Not currently part of either due to personal / work life commitments, I still have a strong sympathy for anarchist communism/ syndicalism.
I do feel like maybe it should be easier to be a part time/ less engaged anarchist and this would make access easier for all. Goups are always very welcoming and accepting but there can be a large imbalance in terms of what very committed people and others do and learn weekly, this can perhaps lead to less committed people feeli g guilty and dropping out? Not sure that's quite what happened with me but do think it night be a thing.
I do feel like maybe it should be easier to be a part time/ less engaged anarchist and this would make access easier for all. Goups are always very welcoming and accepting but there can be a large imbalance in terms of what very committed people and others do and learn weekly, this can perhaps lead to less committed people feeli g guilty and dropping out? Not sure that's quite what happened with me but do think it night be a thing.
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