Are you an anarchist but not a member of an anarchist organisation?

[Rob Ray]

I suppose it is also the case that Kropotkin and co would've said similar in 1914?

Quite possibly, though ultimately with less justification I think. WWI was a much clearer-cut situation in almost every way - socialist organisations were offering a realistic alternative with serious influence, it was between a series of Great Powers rather than being Big Un v Little Un etc. Which is a recurring element of these conflicts and how the left waxes or wanes within them when citing NWBTCW - Iraq being the most obvious one of all, everyone knew from the start it was a war for oil and colonial power and it was wildly unpopular even though Saddam was a gigantic shithead, had previously been trying to impose himself on other countries etc etc.

he'd crossed without thinking during an earlier round of action last year before deciding to look into it a bit more

Aye there's lots of reasons people technically cross a picket line but anyone with much experience is interested in the disruption and the solidarity, not the absolute letter. Apart from anything else I'd argue the majority of the working public isn't really savvy to what picket lines represent any more (I've been on lots of pickets where clueless pricks have swanned by saying, in all seriousness, "I support you"), and at some point they'll need to be recruited, in many cases it's not really very sensible to go full bore at someone who's done it.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

So this is the screenshot that I've seen. This person is a spokesperson for SolFed. However it does appear that this is not representative of everyone in SolFed, and maybe just one or two members who are at odds with their organisation.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

99% sure I know that person. Don’t think they’re a member of SolFed though.

 

[LDC]

A spokesperson of SolFed was saying it online and I hear that that postion has been backed up by the national organisation.

So this has come down to one online comment of someone who might not even be a member of Solfed?

It'd be funny if it wasn't so shitty AA you absolute fucking belting doughnut.

 

[Rob Ray]

Well first without context this is pretty much meaningless. As noted above, there may be various reasons for technically crossing a picket line without actually strikebreaking and the above may well be one of them. Second, I don't see Tom Brown saying he's writing as a rep for his Local, let alone as the official voice of SolFed policy.

A piece of advice AA, the scene is full of spiteful little shits trying to get one over on somebody they've fallen out with or have some tedious rivalry with, often sharing "gotcha" screenshots which are when seen in the round nothing of the sort. They're among the worst parts of the movement and it's best not to take that sort of behaviour at face value, let alone participate by passing it around.

 

[petee]

fucking belting doughnut.

oooh that's a good one.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Well first without context this is pretty much meaningless. As noted above, there may be various reasons for technically crossing a picket line without actually strikebreaking and the above may well be one of them. Second, I don't see Tom Brown saying he's writing as a rep for his Local, let alone as the official voice of SolFed policy.

A piece of advice AA, the scene is full of spiteful little shits trying to get one over on somebody they've fallen out with or have some tedious rivalry with, often sharing "gotcha" screenshots which are when seen in the round nothing of the sort. They're among the worst parts of the movement and it's best not to take that sort of behaviour at face value, let alone participate by passing it around.

Coincidentally I’ve fallen out with “Tom Brown”. Never aware he was ever in SolFed although he’s probably worked with them at some point.

 

[Shechemite]

Without wanting to go full Bogbrush from the message boards, this is an excellent thread, helpful for making sense of the madness.

 

[hitmouse]

OK, for anyone interested, it turns out that the link is to this facebook post, which in turn is a link to this SolFed statement:

Solidarity with the Strikers! | Solidarity Federation

With the relevant section being:

We also seek to unite all workers in a workplace. At a number of universities, several groups of workers have come out on strike at the same time. Just as often, however, we find ourselves having to cross fellow workers' picket lines as we are not on strike that day - how powerful a democratic, horizontal and unitary union would be across all the artificial divides of the workplace that operate today.

So, as I thought it might be, it is indeed a statement mentioning the fact that, where several sectional unions exist, you get unions calling out one section of the workforce and other people finding themselves crossing because there's no strike in their department. If individuals are in a situation where they feel able to refuse to go in, then I think that's laudable, but I also don't think it achieves much for an individual to go out on their own, and I don't think that, say, UCU strikers would be asking Unison members not to cross, or vice versa. So a bit different to "SolFed loves scabbing", then.

 

[The39thStep]

I've never crossed a picket line when there has been a sectional strike unless the pickets have said it is ok to do so. My recollection in the public sector is that the HR line generally in this sort of situation is that if you have made reasonable efforts to attend work then normally they dont/wont take any action if you don't cross but I appreciate individuals circumstance may be different.

What were the circumstances that led to Afed expelling members mentioned in that Tom Brown thing?

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I crossed a picket line once. At a bookshop in Oxford. I was handed a leaflet as I walked in, read the leaflet and promptly left the shop. Years later I worked with the guy who handed me the leaflet and apologised profusely. Of course he had no memory of the incident and was suitably magnanimous in his forgiveness. Still, I did cross the picket line. What does that make me ( apart from the obvious)?

 

[Shechemite]

Given there is so much that can and needs to be done outside of the anarchist scene (or any other scene), as we all know, why spend our time around a worrying amount of people who will drive us mental (or otherwise bring out the worst in us).

The very modest anarchist-ish work I do (whether providing/facilitating peer support, or plugging away, more in hope than expectation, in the very modest peer advocacy work I do within providers and similar organisations) is more than enough to keep me busy, it involves working with people that, quite frankly are of no interest to the anarchist scene (probably a good thing tbh) and, without wanting to sound like a nob, it is much better for my sanity and brings out a much better side of me than hanging around with a bunch of clever, if strange, people who don’t care (or even know about) the struggles I have the privilege of being part of, and who are increasingly cultish and unpleasant.

 

[Dystopiary]

Without wanting to go full Bogbrush from the message boards, this is an excellent thread, helpful for making sense of the madness.

ETA - it’s sincerely meant if goofily expressed LDC

I'm glad to see you Schechemite.

 

[Serge Forward]

Historical note. That Tom Brown mentions people being expelled from Afed. It was years ago and I was a member back then. The person absolutely wasn't expelled. They said they couldn't afford to strike (who the fuck can?) and the matter was discussed with them by other members. In the end, they were determined to scab so left the organisation.

 

[Pickman's model]

Historical note. That Tom Brown mentions people being expelled from Afed. It was years ago and I was a member back then. The person absolutely wasn't expelled. They said they couldn't afford to strike (who the fuck can?) and the matter was discussed with them by other members. In the end, they were determined to scab so left the organisation.

If it's come to the point where you can't afford to strike, you can't afford not to strike

 

[hitmouse]

Historical note. That Tom Brown mentions people being expelled from Afed. It was years ago and I was a member back then. The person absolutely wasn't expelled. They said they couldn't afford to strike (who the fuck can?) and the matter was discussed with them by other members. In the end, they were determined to scab so left the organisation.

And just to be clear, is this someone refusing to take part in a strike that was called, either by their union, or by a union active in their section of the workforce? Cos that sounds very different to the situation being discussed in the SolFed statement, of sectional action being called by one union and other workers outside that section of the workforce crossing because they haven't been asked to go on strike that day.

The broader point of people who say they can't afford to strike, what unions can do to make sure they feel able to strike, and what the rest of the working class can do to ensure that their unions can keep paying and don't go bankrupt, is a big and important one, but maybe outside the scope of this thread? I can see it becoming pretty important if the current strike wave escalates any further.

 

[Pickman's model]

And just to be clear, is this someone refusing to take part in a strike that was called, either by their union, or by a union active in their section of the workforce? Cos that sounds very different to the situation being discussed in the SolFed statement, of sectional action being called by one union and other workers outside that section of the workforce crossing because they haven't been asked to go on strike that day.

The broader point of people who say they can't afford to strike, what unions can do to make sure they feel able to strike, and what the rest of the working class can do to ensure that their unions can keep paying and don't go bankrupt, is a big and important one, but maybe outside the scope of this thread? I can see it becoming pretty important if the current strike wave escalates any further.

back in the day some benefits were available when people were on strike (see Why do people from privileged class backgrounds often misidentify their origins as working class? and post below it). but this was removed in the 1980s - if unions were able to give strike pay or money for subsistence over the course of a strike that'd be really good, to allow strikes of a longer duration to occur. unison has some money you can claim, but really what you'd need is a big fuck off movement raising money for strikers like there was in the 80s but is there the will to do it or the ability to raise funds like they were during the miners' strike? so many small venues have closed, so sure it's harder to put on benefit gigs now than it was even five or ten years ago. (and yes i know there are other ways of fundraising, highlighting how at least one has become harder in recent years)

 

[danny la rouge]

but maybe outside the scope of this thread?

I’ve been astonished on a daily basis by what people believe to be inside the scope of this thread.

 

[hitmouse]

I’ve been astonished on a daily basis by what people believe to be inside the scope of this thread.

Action before consciousness, or consciousness before action?

 

[Dom Traynor]

I’ve been astonished on a daily basis by what people believe to be inside the scope of this thread.

New here?

 

[danny la rouge]

New here?

No, just goldfish-like in some respects.

 

[JimW]

No, just goldfish-like in some respects.

Is that the famous activist bubble?

 

[Sue]

I’ve been astonished on a daily basis by what people believe to be inside the scope of this thread.

It's complete anarchy!

(I'll get my coat. )

 

[A380]

back in the day some benefits were available when people were on strike (see Why do people from privileged class backgrounds often misidentify their origins as working class? and post below it). but this was removed in the 1980s - if unions were able to give strike pay or money for subsistence over the course of a strike that'd be really good, to allow strikes of a longer duration to occur. unison has some money you can claim, but really what you'd need is a big fuck off movement raising money for strikers like there was in the 80s but is there the will to do it or the ability to raise funds like they were during the miners' strike? so many small venues have closed, so sure it's harder to put on benefit gigs now than it was even five or ten years ago. (and yes i know there are other ways of fundraising, highlighting how at least one has become harder in recent years)

]

PCS has quite a large levy at the moment for strike pay. I pay a very low membership, as I’m not technically earning just now. But the levy is significantly more.

 

[redsquirrel]

Yeah, another example at the back of my head is that on the picket line today I was speaking to a fellow picket who told me that, as a relatively new hire, he'd crossed without thinking during an earlier round of action last year before deciding to look into it a bit more and joining the union. I don't particularly love the fact that he crossed last year, but I'm happy and excited that new people who have no previous experience of collective class action are getting involved, and as you say there's not much point in making a moral judgement based on what he did last year.

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

It would be great if there was a culture of absolutely no scabbing in all workplaces but in the present this is the attitude we need to take

 

[hitmouse]

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

I had actually been thinking about that passage, can't remember where else I encountered the parable of the lost sheep recently but I think it might be mentioned in The Robber Bride?

(Sure Danny will be absolutely delighted to see this turn into a multi-page discussion of the use of Christian imagery in Margaret Atwood's writing.)

 

[Serge Forward]

And just to be clear, is this someone refusing to take part in a strike that was called, either by their union, or by a union active in their section of the workforce? Cos that sounds very different to the situation being discussed in the SolFed statement, of sectional action being called by one union and other workers outside that section of the workforce crossing because they haven't been asked to go on strike that day.

The broader point of people who say they can't afford to strike, what unions can do to make sure they feel able to strike, and what the rest of the working class can do to ensure that their unions can keep paying and don't go bankrupt, is a big and important one, but maybe outside the scope of this thread? I can see it becoming pretty important if the current strike wave escalates any further.

As I recall, it was their own union, their own strike they'd been balloted for.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I say unto you that likewise more joy shall be in Heaven over one sinner that repenteth, than over ninety and nine just persons who need no repentance.

It would be great if there was a culture of absolutely no scabbing in all workplaces but in the present this is the attitude we need to take

There’s scabbing in my workplace but they move heaven and earth to avoid picket lines which shows the power the picket lines have.

 

[redsquirrel]

I should have said "this is the attitude we need to take sometimes".

I've no problem with giving scabs a hard word (or more), it's just a question of what is most practical and effective. For the RMT with its high density and culture putting pressure on scabs can be the best option.
But for workplaces (like universities) with moderate to low(ish) density, where a strong 'don't cross a picket line' culture does not exist it simply is not effective to push away those that have scabbed in the past. We need to try and bring the lost sheep into the fold. That does not mean I condone scabbing I don't but I'd rather someone changed their actions than write them off

 

[hitmouse]

As I recall, it was their own union, their own strike they'd been balloted for.

Blimey, this might be stating the obvious but that's a completely different situation then.