Aotearoa: 14 y/o & under will never be able to buy tobacco, for life

[Petcha]

Can we get back to the price of fags around the world please?

 

[alfajobrob]

I'm not laughing at indigenous peoples either.

That's you projecting and thinking you know what's best for them.

 

[Balbi]

lmao, quote tweet where I said Maori culture wasn't warlike in the past or tribal pal, take your time

 

[Balbi]

Also the veneration of Maori culture in modern day New Zealand makes me laugh a little bit.

You think it's just Pakeha who venerate and help restore Maori culture though, aye. Otherwise you wouldn't be laughing a little bit. Because you'd be laughing at Maori as well.

Bit confused eh mate.

 

[alfajobrob]

You think it's just Pakeha who venerate and help restore Maori culture though, aye. Otherwise you wouldn't be laughing a little bit. Because you'd be laughing at Maori as well.

Bit confused eh mate.

No, I'm just laughing at you.

You're thinking because you inject a Maori word or phrase means I should take you seriously when you have been there 5mins.

I'd take a Maori more seriously, but still ask the same questions.

You on the other hand are a joker.

 

[Balbi]

Back to the smokes, the only vocal opposition to it appears to be the ACT party which are our libertarians and the Taxpayers Union who are a knockoff of the UK version (and were previously funded by Philip Morris it was revealed a few years back).

Everyone else is on board. Legislation will go forward some time next year.

 

[Petcha]

No, I'm just laughing at you.

You're thinking because you inject a Maori word or phrase means I should take you seriously when you have been there 5mins.

I'd take a Maori more seriously, but still ask the same questions.

You on the other hand are a joker.

This all seems a bit shit, no idea what the other guy's story is but if he's embraced another culture in the country he's moved to that should be respected not mocked. chill out. I've lived abroad a couple of times and not done the same, stuck to the expat bubble, something I regret.

 

[Balbi]

In least surprising endorsement rounds...

NZ Medical Association Thrilled

Health Coalition Aotearoa Welcome Game-changing Plan

But the vaping association is not happy...

Smokefree Action Plan Fails To Elevate Vaping

 

[alfajobrob]

Ok. Sorry for being abusive to you Balbi.

I will look at some more NZ history though and make up my own mind.

I don't like the idea of the past being washed either way. It's like saying the slave trade started with the Brits. There is always a long and complicated history.

I hate Phillip Morris as much as any decent person does who is addicted to those lovely, beautiful cigarettes!

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

ppp

 

[Balbi]

That's alright, it's a dense and really rich history that is well worth the time to explore both from the British and Maori perspectives.

I can recommend Michael King's 'A Penguin History of NZ' (it is not about penguins)

From a Maori perspective Dr Ranginui Walker's Ka Whawhai Tonu Matou (Struggle Without End) is a must read.

Vincent O'Malley has recently put out The New Zealand Wars as well, a great book on the war the Crown in NZ started against the Maori in the mid 19th century.

 

[alfajobrob]

I can recommend Michael King's 'A Penguin History of NZ' (it is not about penguins)

From a Maori perspective Dr Ranginui Walker's Ka Whawhai Tonu Matou (Struggle Without End) is a must read.

Vincent O'Malley has recently put out The New Zealand Wars as well, a great book on the war the Crown in NZ started against the Maori in the mid 19th century.

I'm always interested in historical perspectives.

I will read at least one once I finish my last couple.

I read "The Crusades through Arab eyes" recently and liked that so will add the second to add something different.

 

[Balbi]

2004 edition is basically a history from Maori mythology through to the early 2000's, she's a dense bugger but it's comprehensive

 

[Riklet]

will they be able to get tik/p/meth tho?

who needs smokes when you can fire up the pipe!

 

[Funky_monks]

Or grow it..

How to grow your own tobacco

Tobacco growth for the enjoyment of smoking can be cost-effective and enjoyable at the same time.

www.lovethegarden.com

It's really easy, I already grow the ornamental version (Nicotina) for the scented flowers and you can nake an insecticide with the leaves.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I don't know. 50% of the people I know who still smoke rollies are buying illicit tobacco.

I did a TV show about fake fags and roll ups. Just any that were not bought legit in legit shops. I don't think we ever found any that were not totally fake, as in, not just bought in to the UK without paying duty, but actually completely fake.
After reading several lab reports about what was in them I would NEVER touch backstreet tobacco.

. . .or perfume.

 

[pogofish]

A friend of mine studied chemistry at New University of Ulster and, as part of the course, visited the Gallagher’s factory in Belfast. He told me that it opened his eyes as to what went into Old Holborn - namely a mix of sugars, flavourings and all sorts of additives that came in the form of a thick tarry substance that infused the raw tobacco. Put him right off smoking after that.

ETA My mate grew tobacco from seed and smoking it was the mildest most pleasant experience compared with commercial brands

My point is that these additives are not inherently dangerous per-se but when taken indiscriminately/out of context or in an analysis post-combustion, it gives a rather skewed picture of what exactly is going-on.

I've got a couple of rafters worth of bunches of homegrown "Virginia" tobacco curing in my garage from an attempt three years ago. I haven't tried any this year yet but for the last two years it has been pretty rough. My reading suggested it could be three to five years before it had cured properly for smoking. Otherwise, if you have the space to grow/cure, it is an excellent way to go.

And I also found a box of something else homegrown that I'd given-up and put away before my arthritis surgery and completely forgotten about - Now it had cured superbly over seven/eight years and was unbelievably mellow/effective. Kept me going through Lockdown very nicely!

 

[stdP]

The idea that this policy will increase the health related costs of smoking is, tbh, weird. Fewer people smoking = reduced costs.

It's not a simple argument to be honest, there's a lot of variables in play. Back when I smoked, revenue from tobacco taxation was more than the NHS spent on treating smoking-related illness, so less smokers = much less tax revenue. I think this is likely the point Sas is referring to (I've not looked at the numbers since).

The more hidden point is that on the whole smokers tend to die much younger and much quicker than non-smokers, thus not needing as much expensive long-term care or claiming as much state pension, etc.

For what it's worth I think nicotine is a great drug, just that cigarettes et al are a terrible delivery mechanism. I've not touched tobacco for over six years now but I'll still treat myself to a nicotine patch every now and then.

 

[Dom Traynor]

"Uncle Hone" doesn't sound patronising at all and the campaign's they are involved in re. Seabeds/Vaccines etc have nothing to do with this issue.

What accountability does "community stop smoking" have?

Just because they are giving out NRT and wellness sessions doesn't mean they aren't hitting smokers with a big Patu.

WTF is all this? I was at a meeting the other day with the CEO of a Māori health org who called him uncle Hone. It's a sign of respect here. Supporters of the PM often call her auntie as well. Especially when from a Māori background.

 

[Dom Traynor]

Also the veneration of Maori culture in modern day New Zealand makes me laugh a little bit.

The idea that the Haka should be respected and not even opposed in modern day rugby is an absolute joke as it was literally a war dance.

Have people already forgotten the native Islanders the invading Maori suppressed and butchered including the Moriori.

It wasn't exactly the peaceful, happy clappy land before the European settlers arrived that like a lot of people make out these days.

Go back a couple of hundred years and see how you get on then with the locals?

What's this racist nonsense? No one denies that there was infighting within Māoridom before and after Europeans arrived. You seem to like parroting racist and colonialist narratives though. There is no compelling evidence of pre-Māori settlement by the way. Moriori were just part of one of several waves of settlement that led to the emergence of the Māori people. They were fucked over by Māori certainly and again there hasn't been much denial of that recently.

 

[Yossarian]

This plan's now been scrapped, the new government can't kick its addiction to tobacco tax revenue

New Zealand scraps world-first smoking ‘generation ban’ to fund tax cuts

Health experts say axing plan to block sales of tobacco products to next generation will cost thousands of lives

www.theguardian.com

 

[Dom Traynor]

This plan's now been scrapped, the new government can't kick its addiction to tobacco tax revenue

New Zealand scraps world-first smoking ‘generation ban’ to fund tax cuts

Health experts say axing plan to block sales of tobacco products to next generation will cost thousands of lives

www.theguardian.com

The new government are a mixture of old style populists, neoliberal freaks, Baptist fucks and far right Libertarians. Expect all sorts of bollocks from them over the next few years. Lots more pollution, crime, and anti working class bullshit.

 

[Silas Loom]

Massive shame. I hope Sunak manages to get it through here. Hope Starmer makes a firm commitment to have it in Labour’s manifesto too.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

I hope so too, but as everyone is trying to sell off the NHS it might be tough to give up on one of their best bad heath moneyspinners.

 

[Mrs Miggins]

That's really disappointing news.

 

[Petcha]

Have they voted in their equivalent of the Tories then? Such a shame Ardern had enough.

 

[Dom Traynor]

Have they voted in their equivalent of the Tories then? Such a shame Ardern had enough.

A coalition of Tories, far right Libertarians and populists. Also expect to see semi automatic guns return and workers rights smashed