Any other idiots (like me) still smoking? This virus means time to stop & wld love mutual support.

[littlebabyjesus]

Susceptibility Analysis of COVID-19 in Smokers Based on ACE2

Background: Cigarette smoking (CS) is a global public health problem and a high-risk factor for various diseases. In December 2019, a novel coronavirus (HCoV-19) was identified in Wuhan, China. Because ACE2 has been identified as a receptor for HCoV-19, we hypothesize that CS affects the...

www.preprints.org

Doesn't help with vaping, though, cos it doesn't explain why smoking causes this, only that it causes it.

Anecdotally, since switching from smoking to vaping, I have become much less susceptible to chest infections and respiratory problems of all kinds associated with colds.

 

[Fez909]

Doesn't help with vaping, though, cos it doesn't explain why smoking causes this, only that it causes it.

Nicotine specifically has been implicated in higher ACE2 expression:

Nicotine and the renin-angiotensin system - PubMed

Cigarette smoking is the single most important risk factor for the development of cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases (CVPD). Although cigarette smoking has been in constant decline since the 1950s, the introduction of e-cigarettes or electronic nicotine delivery systems 10 yr ago has...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[elbows]

Susceptibility Analysis of COVID-19 in Smokers Based on ACE2

Background: Cigarette smoking (CS) is a global public health problem and a high-risk factor for various diseases. In December 2019, a novel coronavirus (HCoV-19) was identified in Wuhan, China. Because ACE2 has been identified as a receptor for HCoV-19, we hypothesize that CS affects the...

www.preprints.org

Thanks. Now get ready for the confusing bit. Try searching for something like 'ACE2 downregulation nicotine'.

eg:

Our pilot data suggest that cigarette smoke or nicotine inhalation inhibits the expression of ACE2/AT2R in multiple organs including the brain, heart and lungs, thus disrupting the balance within the RAS.

Chronic nicotine inhalation increases susceptibility to cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases through inhibition of local compensatory mechanisms

Nicotine is the addictive component of tobacco-derived products. Through binding to a family of nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs), nicotine influences a diverse range of cellular mechanisms i...

grantome.com

 

[bimble]

Vaping - I did try for a bit but imo it's too much like smoking so you don't really break the habit of smoking, so best case scenario you just vape forever and if you do it while walking down the road with clouds of steam or whatever the fuck it is around you everybody else in area thinks 'what a bellend', at worst you run out of vape juice or the thing breaks or you can't get your favourite cinammon blueberry mocha flavour or something and cos you've never broken the habit you have a fag instead.

Horses for courses innit, these are just my thoughts.

Thats exactly what happened when i replaced fags with vape couple years ago. The bellend bit but also then went on holiday (thailand) and the vape machine broke and they are (or were i think) illegal there so couldn't replace. Went and bought box of fags next day and that was that.

Also sadly for me smoking spliff regularly was incompatible with not smoking fags or roll ups, I did try just smoking bongs or pure spliffs every time I had a craving on one occasion when I tried to give up tobacco/nicotine a few years ago now, I did give up nicotine but I also gave up work and leaving the house

Yep. I'm not a stoner anymore so what seemed impossible then should be much easier now.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Thats exactly what happened when i replaced fags with vape couple years ago. The bellend bit but also then went on holiday (thailand) and the vape machine broke and they are (or were i think) illegal there so couldn't replace. Went and bought box of fags next day and that was that.


Yep. I'm not a stoner anymore so what seemed impossible then should be much easier now.

Yeah my fall off vape wagon was going to greece assuming the vape thing had taken off there (about 2013) then finding it hadn't and then just smoking about 40 a day cos I was on holiday and they were cheap and I'd give up when I got home. Didn't even try giving up again for about two years.

 

[krtek a houby]

Best of luck to you, bimble

Won't be giving it up, smokes are too cheap here, but I am cutting down of late.

 

[8ball]

Good luck bimble and other covid-quitters!

 

[bimble]

Day One of leavibg the house with no fags on me and car’s broken down on the a41 and i can’t even smoke. Fucks sake.

 

[lazythursday]

I only smoke tobacco in spliffs but generally have a few each evening. I stopped a few weeks ago, then the stress of this week has seen me smoke a spliff a night for the last few nights. Really stupid, I'm asthmatic and need my lungs pristine to take on Covid19.

 

[Orang Utan]

Not a smoker, but a compulsive nail biter. Trying and failing not to.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I stopped fags and went to vaping last week - partly because I had a cold and was sick of it, but also because of the corona.

Vaping definitely does make your lungs and general system healthier. I spent some years vaping and when I was, I basically never got any respiratory illness at all. Since going back on the fags every winter has been a constant period of snot and coughing. Not inhaling any drugs at all is of course going to be the gold standard here, but not inhaling poison smoke has to be a step forward.

I love fags though. I really do like smoking

 

[Orang Utan]

Watching people vape in public just underlines how far someone's germy breath travels.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Watching people vape in public just underlines how far someone's germy breath travels.

Yes and no. wrt cv it's droplets you need to be wary of rather than gas that's been in the lungs.

 

[Orang Utan]

Yes and no. wrt cv it's droplets you need to be wary of rather than gas that's been in the lungs.

droplets in the breath

 

[FridgeMagnet]

droplets in the breath

Vape exhale is not the same as virus-bearing droplets.

 

[Detroit City]

I quit smoking 5 years ago, probably the best thing ive ever done. I feel like a new person

 

[Orang Utan]

Vape exhale is not the same as virus-bearing droplets.

feels/looks like it though

 

[littlebabyjesus]

feels/looks like it though

So what?

 

[Orang Utan]

So what?

anxiety

 

[littlebabyjesus]

anxiety

The stuff spreading widely from a person vaping is gas, not virus-bearing droplets of water. Facts can help you here.

 

[Orang Utan]

The stuff spreading widely from a person vaping is gas, not virus-bearing droplets of water. Facts can help you here.

not really

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I stopped fags and went to vaping last week - partly because I had a cold and was sick of it, but also because of the corona.

Vaping definitely does make your lungs and general system healthier. I spent some years vaping and when I was, I basically never got any respiratory illness at all. Since going back on the fags every winter has been a constant period of snot and coughing. Not inhaling any drugs at all is of course going to be the gold standard here, but not inhaling poison smoke has to be a step forward.

I love fags though. I really do like smoking

The stuff on nicotine and ace2 is interesting and something i'll definitely keep an eye on wrt the potential damage of vaping. I'm under no illusions that vaping is harmless, but the experience of a general improvement in the system when switching does seem to be the norm. My circulation and breathing improved, and I am most definitely far less susceptible to chest infections. CV will be an exception to that if it attacks vapers as well as smokers.

 

[elbows]

Thanks. Now get ready for the confusing bit. Try searching for something like 'ACE2 downregulation nicotine'.

No takers for exploring this angle? Its doing my head in! Heres another one:

SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class research journals

Subscription and open access journals from SAGE Publishing, the world's leading independent academic publisher.

journals.sagepub.com

After six months of cigarette exposure, the RVSP of chronic cigarette induction group was significantly higher than that of the control group; expression levels of AngII and ACE increased in lung tissues, but ACE2 expression levels reduced. Compared with cigarette exposure group, after losartan treatment, RVSP, ACE and AngII obviously decreased (P<0.05), and ACE2 expression levels significantly increased.

 

[Shechemite]

Evidence suggests that you are very significantly more likely to get the most severe version of this virus if you're a smoker.

This is likely to be what explains the different death rates between men and women in China.
Evidence re vaping less extensive for obvious reasons but not at all good either from what I can see.

Am shitting self and stopping. Buying a stack of NRT patches today.
If I can stop today and also do my best to delay getting the virus until the peak is passed I reckon I stand a better chance of not you know competing for a respirator with someone who is not an idiot (ie with a non smoker).

Not a great time for it as am anxious as hell obvs but it is.. motivating.
I know hardly anyone still smokes but if you do please consider joining me?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30117-X/fulltext

Reduce your risk of serious lung disease caused by corona virus by quitting smoking and vaping | Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education

tobacco.ucsf.edu

Smoking or vaping increases risks for those with coronavirus: NYC mayor

Smoking or vaping makes people more vulnerable to suffering severe illness once infected by coronavirus, a spokeswoman for New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Sunday.

www.reuters.com

I’m up for it (cough)

 

[elbows]

Nicotine specifically has been implicated in higher ACE2 expression:

Nicotine and the renin-angiotensin system - PubMed

Cigarette smoking is the single most important risk factor for the development of cardiovascular and pulmonary diseases (CVPD). Although cigarette smoking has been in constant decline since the 1950s, the introduction of e-cigarettes or electronic nicotine delivery systems 10 yr ago has...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hang on, I read it again, doesnt it say the opposite?

In the ACE/ANG II/AT1R arm, nicotine has been shown to increase the expression and/or activity of renin, ACE and AT1R, whereas in the compensatory ACE2/ANG-(1–7)/MasR arm, nicotine downregulates the expression and/or activity of ACE2 and AT2R.

One more to add to the very mixed picture.

Bulk and Single-Cell Transcriptomics Identify Tobacco-Use Disparity in Lung Gene Expression of ACE2, the Receptor of 2019-nCov

In current severe global emergency situation of 2019-nCov outbreak, it is imperative to identify vulnerable and susceptible groups for effective protection and care. Recently, studies found that 2019-nCov and SARS-nCov share the same receptor, ACE2. In this study, we analyzed five large-scale...

www.preprints.org

Together, this study indicates that smokers especially former smokers may be more susceptible to 2019-nCov and have infection paths different with non-smokers

 

[lazythursday]

Does that mean there's no point stopping as the damage is done, as far as the virus is concerned? Former smokers stlll susceptible? Does that mean I should just have my nightly spliff?

 

[bimble]

Hang on, I read it again, doesnt it say the opposite?



One more to add to the very mixed picture.

Bulk and Single-Cell Transcriptomics Identify Tobacco-Use Disparity in Lung Gene Expression of ACE2, the Receptor of 2019-nCov

In current severe global emergency situation of 2019-nCov outbreak, it is imperative to identify vulnerable and susceptible groups for effective protection and care. Recently, studies found that 2019-nCov and SARS-nCov share the same receptor, ACE2. In this study, we analyzed five large-scale...

www.preprints.org

“Especially FORMER smokers” .. what?

 

[elbows]

Does that mean there's no point stopping as the damage is done, as far as the virus is concerned? Former smokers stlll susceptible? Does that mean I should just have my nightly spliff?

What all these conflicting scientific papers mean is that this is not an area where sufficient study and scientific consensus exists in order for us to be able to point clearly to the full picture at this time.

People are rushing to do the analysis, often using lung samples data from the past. Some of the data sizes are rather small. eg there was an early paper that made quite a lot of the possibility that asians had big ACE2 differences, and the very next study found the opposite, before we even get into all the questions about smoking.

I wish more research had been done into this over the years. If I remmeber properly, SARS was considered to use ACE2 as well, so there was enough reason to take interest in the subject before now.

Also, I am afraid there is another potentially very serious implication to the ACE2 aspect. It deserves its own thread, I suspect it will get one but I am so knackered now I'm just going to put it here because the logic of it is the same as the risk to smokers thing, its all about changes to ACE2 levels.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8/fulltext

The expression of ACE2 is substantially increased in patients with type 1 or type 2 diabetes, who are treated with ACE inhibitors and angiotensin II type-I receptor blockers (ARBs).
4Hypertension is also treated with ACE inhibitors and ARBs, which results in an upregulation of ACE2.
5 ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19.

Think some shitty newspapers picked up on that, but I dont want to link to them, not sure if its gone wider since I last looked.

 

[Proper Tidy]

Tbf and I haven't done the maths here but I reckon you are probably still statistically more likely to die from lung cancer than corona

 

[Marty1]

Evidence suggests that you are very significantly more likely to get the most severe version of this virus if you're a smoker.

This is likely to be what explains the different death rates between men and women in China.
Evidence re vaping less extensive for obvious reasons but not at all good either from what I can see.

Am shitting self and stopping. Buying a stack of NRT patches today.
If I can stop today and also do my best to delay getting the virus until the peak is passed I reckon I stand a better chance of not you know competing for a respirator with someone who is not an idiot (ie with a non smoker).

Not a great time for it as am anxious as hell obvs but it is.. motivating.
I know hardly anyone still smokes but if you do please consider joining me?

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30117-X/fulltext

Reduce your risk of serious lung disease caused by corona virus by quitting smoking and vaping | Center for Tobacco Control Research and Education

tobacco.ucsf.edu

Smoking or vaping increases risks for those with coronavirus: NYC mayor

Smoking or vaping makes people more vulnerable to suffering severe illness once infected by coronavirus, a spokeswoman for New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said on Sunday.

www.reuters.com

I’m still vaping - lesser of two evils.