Another Lib Dem anti-Semite

[littlebabyjesus]

'Silence is consent'?

Silence of whom? Israelis or just any Jews anywhere? Is there a duty on any Jew anywhere to be actively campaigning against Israel, even if they are opposed to Zionism and have nothing to do with the Israeli state? Are people to be held to different standards depending on their Jewishness?

I can see the point perhaps if you're talking about Israelis. But not if you're talking about all Jews. That's falling into the same trap as the person in the OP.

 

[frogwoman]

'Silence is consent'?

Silence of whom? Israelis or just any Jews anywhere? Is there a duty on any Jew anywhere to be actively campaigning against Israel, even if they are opposed to Zionism and have nothing to do with the Israeli state? Are people to be held to different standards depending on their Jewishness?

I can see the point perhaps if you're talking about Israelis. But not if you're talking about all Jews. That's falling into the same trap as the person in the OP.

Nah. People act like Israelis have any more control over their government than British people do.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Nah. People act like Israelis have any more control over their government than British people do.

It's not a question of control. I'm not saying that all Israelis are to blame for their government's actions.

 

[frogwoman]

And when the public visible Jewish opposition to zionism is made of haredi Jews who believe that a secular government in Israel is a sin against G-D among other things such as believing that to drive on the sabbath means should get stoned to death, and, if their leadership got political power, would introduce a theocratic regime that was worse than the taliban, that the holocaust was a punishment for not being religious enough, and middle-class secular Jews who ignore anti-semitism on the part of their political fellow travellers for whatever reason you can hardly blame jewish people for not wanting to get involved in campaigns about Israel.

There is no fucking obligation for Jews to get involved in campaigns about Israel just because they're Jews btw.

 

[Falcon]

I'd suggest that someone who in the past has demonstrated a rather detailed knowledge of *a* subject - to the extent of quoting academic papers and serious books (including one by Israel Shahak - a prominent leader of just such groups that he now professes ignorance of - among other interesting things) suddenly becoming totally ignorant is a little unlikely. (my edit)

*detailed knowledge*? *totally ignorant*? A strawman constructed from synthetic absolutes. I know some bits, and am exploring the subject. You are picking a fight where none is warranted.

 

[frogwoman]

'Silence is consent'?

Silence of whom? Israelis or just any Jews anywhere? Is there a duty on any Jew anywhere to be actively campaigning against Israel, even if they are opposed to Zionism and have nothing to do with the Israeli state? Are people to be held to different standards depending on their Jewishness?

I can see the point perhaps if you're talking about Israelis. But not if you're talking about all Jews. That's falling into the same trap as the person in the OP.

There is no obligation to campaign against israel. or are we back to dual loyalty charges now? (not you)

 

[Falcon]

Why are you suspicious of Jews falcon?

I see. "People are suspicious of Jews. I am "people". Therefore, I am suspicious of Jews".

May God, Jehova and Allah spare us from junior school logical fallacies.

 

[DotCommunist]

He said Jehovah!

 

[Falcon]

thing is I don't need a point to sit here an laugh at how you've fucked yourself.

I concede you don't need a point to sit there and laugh. I don't concede that you have demonstrated how I've fucked myself, and I am quite certain you won't. Meanwhile, it will be obvious to others that you fail even to try.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

'Silence is consent'?

Silence of whom? .

Could you clarify this?

 

[DotCommunist]

appeal to audience, desperate stuff. Consider your cards marked

 

[frogwoman]

What is a "Jewish political agenda"?

 

[J Ed]

the Jews and I

 

[DotCommunist]

starring Yul Brynner

 

[TheHermit]

Not actually an anti-semite but an anti-zionist, the Semites were a mixed tribe of Jews, Arabs and others so this statement is not strictly speaking anti-semitic. There is a big difference between this and anti-zionism.

 

[frogwoman]

Not actually an anti-semite but an anti-zionist, the Semites were a mixed tribe of Jews, Arabs and others so this statement is not strictly speaking anti-semitic. There is a big difference between this and anti-zionism.

Completely irrelevant, anti-semitism always refers to prejudice against jews and people who use this argument remind me of that "Islam isn't a race" bullshit.

 

[DotCommunist]

Not actually an anti-semite but an anti-zionist, the Semites were a mixed tribe of Jews, Arabs and others so this statement is not strictly speaking anti-semitic. There is a big difference between this and anti-zionism.

everyone is aware of the origins of the phrase, its not relevant any more than 'homophobia' means an actual fear of gay people on behalf of the person kicking a gay mans head in.

language isn't an exact science and meaning is fluid. What we commonly understand as 'anti-semitism' is jew hatred

 

[Belushi]

There is no obligation to campaign against israel. or are we back to dual loyalty charges now? (not you)

I'm only part jewish so I reckon being mildy miffed about Israeli actions is enough..

 

[DotCommunist]

shit, forgot to capitalise the J, ayatollah will now condemn me

 

[butchersapron]

lanh=guage isn't an exct science

 

[emanymton]

They killed Jesus to you know!

It was really more of an assisted suicide if you think about it.

 

[DotCommunist]

You can hardly sit on the high horse wrt spelling

 

[butchersapron]

You can hardly sit on the high horse wrt spelling

I've been great since the board changeover. No one knows what my posts really look like now.

 

[Falcon]

There is no fucking obligation for Jews to get involved in campaigns about Israel just because they're Jews btw.

Seems an important point, to me. Israel is only viable as a state for as long as the US and others continue to fund Israel's military projects (so, thankfully, this is a problem that will go away soon). Would the US subsidise Israeli military projects if there wasn't a powerful Jewish lobby? It certainly has regional political significance that isn't religious. But the influence of the Jewish lobby on US foreign policy in general, and Israeli policy in particular, is indisputable.

So there is a very large and powerful group of Jews who do get very involved in campaigns in Israel, obligation or not.

One of the problems Palestine has is that this involvement is not sufficiently opposed. Yet the most powerful opponent of a state which claims to represent the interests of Jews worldwide would be worldwide Jews. That seems to present some sort of obligation, if only to dissociate from atrocity, which the pro-Israeli activities of non-Israeli Jews seems only to deepen.

 

[Belushi]

There is no obligation to campaign against israel.

It reminds me of after 9/11 when twats were demanding that Muslims everywhere condemn it.

 

[frogwoman]

Would the US subsidise Israeli military projects if there wasn't a powerful Jewish lobby?

Yes

It certainly has regional political significance that isn't religious. But the influence of the Jewish lobby on US foreign policy in general, and Israeli policy in particular, is indisputable.

Why do you think it is "indisputable"?

So there is a very large and powerful group of Jews who do get very involved in campaigns in Israel, obligation or not.

One of the problems Palestine has is that no-one opposes this involvement.

Yes they do

 

[frogwoman]

It reminds me of after 9/11 when twats were demanding that Muslims everywhere condemn it.

Yeah that is exactly it.

 

[DotCommunist]

whats the finklestein book on this frog? the recent one about some american jews becoming less supportive of Israel?

 

[Falcon]

It reminds me of after 9/11 when twats were demanding that Muslims everywhere condemn it.

Yet, interestingly, the obligation to condemn the Holocaust is subject to legal enforcement in some countries. I hastily point out that I do not question condemnation of the Holocaust, merely the supposition that there is some basis for special distinction in law.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Seems an important point, to me. Israel is only viable as a state for as long as the US and others continue to fund Israel's military projects (so, thankfully, this is a problem that will go away soon). Would the US subsidise Israeli military projects if there wasn't a powerful Jewish lobby? It certainly has regional political significance that isn't religious. But the influence of the Jewish lobby on US foreign policy in general, and Israeli policy in particular, is indisputable.

So there is a very large and powerful group of Jews who do get very involved in campaigns in Israel, obligation or not.

One of the problems Palestine has is that this involvement is not sufficiently opposed. Yet the most powerful opponent of a state which claims to represent the interests of Jews worldwide would be worldwide Jews. That seems to present some sort of obligation, if only to dissociate from atrocity, which the pro-Israeli activities of non-Israeli Jews seems only to deepen.

This is dangerous ground you're on here. You do appear to be holding people to different standards depending on nothing other than their Jewishness.