butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I think the Falcon has flew a litle further than he intended to here, must be some strong winds up there today.
Another Lib Dem anti-Semite
- Thread starter Garek
- Start date
Nope. Please don't waste everyone's time on one of your little strawman fantasies. I've observed that Israelis and some Jews routinely do. That is the extent of my statement.
I've made a simple point: the assertion that Israel does not represent general Jewish sentiment can be easily disproven by presenting evidence of material Jewish sentiment condemming Israeli atrocity.
I am neither condoning conflation, nor denying that such evidence exists. I'm just curious what it looks like, since I've never seen it. I would be delighted if it did.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Did you read what you actually wrote in your original post? Did you actually think it through and thought that whatever you were trying to express would be best presented in that form? You managed it much better in the above post. Now, beyond the example that you offered above, what others examples can you offer of "advancing a Jewish political agenda"?
For those not familiar with butchersapron's thought processes, this is the activity he substitutes for debate when he has nothing interesting to say. It is to debate what masturbation is to sex.
The example I provided combines religious prophesy, a political program, and the destruction of an incumbent state. In what way is the example not sufficient?
I've asked a question, and this is irrelevant misdirection, as will be all the tiresome personal attack which will serve only to draw attention to any absence of evidence.
eatmorecheese
He's fallen out of the car again
Oh for goodness sake. Sate your curiosity with a few simple google searches.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
No it's not. It's entirely insufficient, and you suggested in your reply to me that you have others. So let's have some of them. This actually is rather important to establishing that such a "jewish agenda" actually exists, something that your own posts rely on.
I am. Help me with it.
Important to you. I'm interested in the proposition of this thread. What evidence is there that Israeli atrocity is deplored by significant non-Israeli Jewish institutions? My interest in this thread will be concluded when it is presented, and I hope that it will be. There is no argument here for you.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
There most certainly is, your original post was a great example of political question begging - it assumes a shared "jewish agenda" between jews and the Israeli state as its start point and then proceeds to ask what evidence there is to suggest that this is a nonsense - and in the most sarcastic tone as if to suggest yeah, you try it and see how you fail - "That would be fascinating." Of course, now that you've been alerted to that fact that you went too far too soon you will dress it up as honest inquiry.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
Have you tried google? 12.4 million hits for "jews against zionism". I cba to paste a load of links though. There are fucking loads of jews and jewish groups against both zionism in principle and against the actions of the current israeli state. Come to any palestine protest and you will find us there.
I'm just going to post up a single link, a group called "Peace Now"
http://peacenow.org.il/eng/
not against zionism, but against the way that the Israeli state treats Palestine/Palestinians. They are Israeli Jews btw in case you don't care to check through to the link. Is this enough material evidence for you to answer this: "the assertion that Israel does not represent general Jewish sentiment can be easily disproven by presenting evidence of material Jewish sentiment condemming Israeli atrocity."?
Honestly, I find it hard to believe that you are (a) either completely unaware of the substantial jewish criticisms of Israel or (b) couldn't be bothered with a simple google search, so I'm wondering what your agenda is here?
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Just about, could have been that originally. However he seems to have stuck by his wording (according to the link. There's a bbc interview which I can't hear as speakers are bust). Have to take it that he meant 'Jews' and is sticking with 'Jews'. He's a racisit fool.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
That's all I'm looking for, and that is useful - thank you. This is not an area I'm familiar with. Since you are, I can easily understand that you can't imagine what that's like, and indeed, I am constantly surprised by the many things of which you are completely unaware that I take for granted - yet I don't accuse you of an agenda. Sometimes, "Here's how it looks to me but I don't know, can anyone help me?" is precisely what it looks like.
Meanwhile, I'd suggest that treating anyone who wishes to reduce his ignorance on a subject through debate is a malcontent is hardly the best recruiting strategy.
Ironically, the Jews and I share the same problem. This isn't good for your argument.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
BigTom
Well-Known Member
sorry, should have said (a) and (b) not or, it's such a simple google search to find anti-zionist jewish groups that I struggle to understand that you couldn't do it, knowing from other threads that you are both intelligent and internet capable. Please accept my apologies, but understand my skepticism. I'm not seeking to recruit anyone btw.
Of course it's simple. So is an internet search on industrial metabolism. If you know that's the question you need to ask. I use "recruit" in the sense of understanding and adopting your view. No apology required, I enjoy your posts.
Thanks for allowing me to point out the hilarity of your position in two ways.
So you have suspicions about my views on the suspicions people have with Jews? Can you develop this point a little further?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
I'd suggest that someone who in the past has demonstrated a rather detailed knowledge of a subject - to the extent of quoting academic papers and serious books (including one by Israel Shahak - a prominent leader of just such groups that he now professes ignorance of - among other interesting things) suddenly becoming totally ignorant is a little unlikely.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
i have no point, just laughing at you having let the mask slip and furiously backpeddaling
Can you explain to the others why observing that (1) the fact that people are suspicious of Jews is the problem this thread seeks to demonstrate and (2) that fact that your suspicion of me means that Jews and I have the same problem and (3) the fact that demonstrating precisely the behaviours you accuse others of in deploying your argument harms you argument, is backpeddling?
Seems like pretty vigorous forward peddling to me. And it does also seem to reinforce your admission that you have no point.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Why are you suspicious of Jews falcon?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
thing is I don't need a point to sit here an laugh at how you've fucked yourself.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
It's our noses. Blates.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I would also suggest that the reasons why many jewish people don't like groups such as Jews for Justice for Palestinians, Jews for Boycotting Israeli Goods etc isn't because they are fanatical zionists but because these single-issue groups tend to be dominated by middle class secular jews who have little or no involvement with the jewish community and are sometimes all too willing to ignore anti-semitism in the name of "anti-zionism". These same people could actually be very very critical of Israel.
Then again that is the same problem of much of the anti-war movement and the left. It is like asking why British people dont oppose the war in iraq. They do but they feel alienated by many of the most vocal people in the opposition to it.
Then again that is the same problem of much of the anti-war movement and the left. It is like asking why British people dont oppose the war in iraq. They do but they feel alienated by many of the most vocal people in the opposition to it.
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