And next, Syria?

[goldenecitrone]

Depends who you ask - I thought the whole curve from the Nile Delta up through Palestine, Jordan, Lebanon and Syria was pretty much the same arabic (I remember this being called shams - i.e. sun - arabic but I just googled that and came up with nothing) - but I've only really spent time in Egypt. Egyptian tv soap operas have been pretty massive in the arab world so I thought this was now the standard (although things like the hard 'g' still sound a bit harsh to me).

Not just TV, but film, music and literature.

 

[laptop]

Not just TV, but film, music and literature.

But Egyptian is quite distinct from Modern Standard Arabic ((al-fuṣḥá). Seeking backup (guess where):

TV hosts who read prepared MSA scripts, for example in Al Jazeera, are ordered to give up their national or ethnic origins by changing their pronunciation of certain phonemes (e.g. the realization of the Classical jīm ج as [ɡ] by Egyptians)

So does the use of Egyptian in soaps make it like toned-down Estuary, in contrast to Oxbridge?

And, crucially: what form do the people who dub the Turkish soaps use?

(Qualification: I speak almost no Arabic. But I can tell you that Bethlehem has a mangel-wurzel accent )

 

[goldenecitrone]

But Egyptian is quite distinct from Modern Standard Arabic ((al-fuṣḥá). Seeking backup (guess where):



So does the use of Egyptian in soaps make it like toned-down Estuary, in contrast to Oxbridge?

And, crucially: what form do the people who dub the Turkish soaps use?

(Qualification: I speak almost no Arabic. But I can tell you that Bethlehem has a mangel-wurzel accent )

Interesting. Classical Arabic is the language of Allah, and though everybody speaks a dialect, they still will use Modern Standard Arabic in more formal settings as it is linked back to the language of the Koran.

 

[laptop]

Interesting. Classical Arabic is the language of Allah, and though everybody speaks a dialect, they still will use Modern Standard Arabic in more formal settings as it is linked back to the language of the Koran.

But MSA / al-fuṣḥá is, I am told, at least as far from Classical / Koranic as Oxbridge is from Shakespeare (or even Chaucer?). Even fluent Oxbridge speakers have trouble with it, and so on.

(I am aware that there are all sorts of agendas behind the claim that street kids memorising Classical passages in the madrassa don't understand a word, from urban-elite-snobbery to anti-Islamism: but that doesn't by itself stop it being true.)

 

[goldenecitrone]

But MSA / al-fuṣḥá is, I am told, at least as far from Classical / Koranic as Oxbridge is from Shakespeare (or even Chaucer?). Even fluent Oxbridge speakers have trouble with it, and so on.

I'm sure it is. Shakespearean English sounds like a Somerset country bumpkin. 3 minutes in here.

 

[phildwyer]

I'm sure it is. Shakespearean English sounds like a Somerset country bumpkin. 3 minutes in here.

It's brilliant innit, they can tell by the rhymes.

Apparently Queen Elizabeth I would have sounded like Wurzel Gummidge.

 

[Casually Red]

This jihadist feud has well kicked off . Its going on over 4 provinces now . SAA seem to be sitting back and letting them at it , unsurprisingly . Hundreds dead on both sides . Al Nusra either seem to be at 6s and 7s or playing carrot and stick, taking part in it in some districts, forming panels with ISIL in others . Looks like theyre simply reminding ISIL its them who have the offical Al Qaeda franchise and not ISIL . Hard to tell whos winning as well, they just seem to be blowing shite out of each other with honours even .

Very different kettle of fish from when they ran the FSA leadership out of town a few weeks ago . And they seem to be very much giving up the ghost . Last week they surrndered an entire town to the SAA, handed over their guns, dismantled all booby traps and took advantage of the amnesty programme .

Meanwhile another squad of them trying to break ot of Alleppo took pretty massive casualties, over 40 dead . Theres been a series of these turnovers recently . The jihadists were threatening to kill the SOHR for revealing details of their casualties, numbering around 100 in one notable SAA ambush of a jihadist column . Just one in a recent series .

Think the writings well and truly on the wall for these bozos, at long last .

 

[TomUS]

Think the writings well and truly on the wall for these bozos, at long last .

Not so sure about that. The supply of Sunni jihadists entering the country appears inexhaustible. As the US/NATO learned in Afghan, they can be beaten in battle after battle but don't give up easily. They want to die fighting.

 

[Casually Red]

In this case theyre fighting a nation of people,millions, not a foreign force of occupation thousands of miles from its own borders.

The SOHR estimates that around 600 jihadists on both sides have been killed so far this week in this feud, and expect that number to rise even further. Meanwhile the SAA have killed around 100 , 40 in one action alone yesterday , and liberating yet another town from their control. Those are pretty serious losses in a very short space of time. They arent gaining any ground at all and are just losing more and more of it. While slaughtering each other by the hundred.

 

[thriller]

Great news. Let's hope they kill each other out of existence.

 

[elbows]

Is that what your braincells did?

 

[Idris2002]

the second the USAs geo political interests are threatened by the zionist entity its goodnight Tel Aviv . Theres a massive difference between not doing something that pisses people off and having an outpost at the centre of the worlds biggest oil lake and essential trade routes thats 100 percent reliant upon you . The zionists naturally take advantage of this geopolitical necessity, and sometimes lose the run of themselves, but they most certainly do not tell a superpower what to do . The assumption behind this policy is that US policy is essentially decent and fair but its just a few lobbyists making it all go wrong .
Thats absolute bollocks . They were arming the zionists to the teeth and still not letting jews into their fucking golf clubs .

Every so often Israel asks for its spy in a US prison (Jonathan Pollard, I think his name is) to be released, and gets told to naff off.

 

[Idris2002]

Is that what your braincells did?

I think he helped them along.

 

[teqniq]

In-depth article concerning the infighting and the myriad groups involved

Syria's uprising within an uprising

 

[thriller]

can't be arsed to read all dat. But Jihadist killing Jihdist = I am very happy.

 

[bendeus]

can't be arsed to read all dat. But Jihadist killing Jihdist = I am very happy.

In the same way that you're happy with your morning stool, or eating mud, or your-mum-treating-you-to-a-Pizza-Hut happy?

 

[Tankus]

If they are fighting each other, does that mean that Assad is nearly spent ?

 

[goldenecitrone]

In-depth article concerning the infighting and the myriad groups involved

Syria's uprising within an uprising

Interesting. Hard to keep track of all the different factions in the Assad-induced chaos and barbarism.

 

[Fuchs66]

Casually Red I'd be interested to hear your comments to this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/syria-torture-photos-amanpour/

 

[Casually Red]

4 brits arrested by Lebanese authorities in the Bekaa valley

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=130887&frid=23&cid=23&fromval=1&seccatid=14

And now this Geneva2 thing descending into utter farce with the UN inviting Iran and then withdrawing the invite for refusing to accept the jihadists ridiculous preconditions . Assads dismisisng the preconditions as a joke too .

 

[Casually Red]

Casually Red I'd be interested to hear your comments to this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/syria-torture-photos-amanpour/

that qatari intelligence sponsored thing released on cue to coincide with the geneva farce ? Im fully expecting it to be a complete load of old bollocks.

 

[Fuchs66]

that qatari intelligence sponsored thing released on cue to coincide with the geneva farce ? Im fully expecting it to be a complete load of old bollocks.

Let's wait and see then shall we, I, unlike you,am not speculating.

 

[Casually Red]

just like this MIT study of the Ghouta chemical attacks seems to be exposing the last white house claims of incontrovertible proof as a load of old bollocks.


http://rt.com/op-edge/chemical-attack-report-false-841/

 

[Casually Red]

Let's wait and see then shall we, I, unlike you,am not speculating.

Im most certainly not speculating that this evidence has been collated by the Qatari intelligence services, who are also heavily involved in funding and arming the jihadist terrorist groups in Syria . It most definitely has been .

Are you seriously doubting that ? Or do you accept that, but regard me as somehow unreasonable for doubting evidence collated by the Qatari intelligence services ?

 

[Fuchs66]

just like this MIT study of the Ghouta chemical attacks seems to be exposing the last white house claims of incontrovertible proof as a load of old bollocks.

I didn't mention this and have made no comments on this incident

 

[Fuchs66]

Im most certainly not speculating that this evidence has been collated by the Qatari intelligence services, who are also heavily involved in funding and arming the jihadist terrorist groups in Syria . It most definitely has been .

Are you seriously doubting that ? Or do you accept that, but regard me as somehow unreasonable for doubting evidence collated by the Qatari intelligence services ?

I'm not doubting or supporting anything yet I just wanted to hear your comments at this point, who knows maybe they will be enlightening in the future.

 

[Fuchs66]

Also just because the individuals or organisation that may or may not have gathered the evidence (although the Qataris certainly funded the investigation) do not fit in your perfect world image doesn't make a crime less despicable if in the end it turns out to be true.

 

[TomUS]

Casually Red I'd be interested to hear your comments to this:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/20/world/syria-torture-photos-amanpour/

It's very believable. Torture has been standing operating procedure for the Assad regime.....father & son. Human Rights Watch report from July 2012:

Former detainees and defectors have identified the locations, agencies responsible, torture methods used, and, in many cases, the commanders in charge of 27 detention facilities run by Syrian intelligence agencies, Human Rights Watch said in a multimedia report released today. The systematic patterns of ill-treatment and torture that Human Rights Watch documented clearly point to a state policy of torture and ill-treatment and therefore constitute a crime against humanity.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/07/03/syria-torture-centers-revealed

 

[Casually Red]

Also just because the individuals or organisation that may or may not have gathered the evidence (although the Qataris certainly funded the investigation) do not fit in your perfect world image doesn't make a crime less despicable if in the end it turns out to be true.

theyre a party to the armed conflict, just spit it out man . And the decsion to come out with this on the very eve of the Geneva talks points to purely political purposes . Anyone taking those claims at face value is either heavily biased or a complete idiot . Or both .

 

[Casually Red]

and thanks tom for backing my position up by simply disagreeing with me