And next, Syria?

[butchersapron]

Of course there is. The first step to understanding this in this country is to demolish the lies of fisk and his ilk. Yesterday fisk claimed that he would be surprised if there were even 70 'moderates' in the whole of Syria - this is footage from a joint SDF/YPG funeral (killed fighting jihadis in north-west Aleppo) yesterday.



What did you see watching this?

First step, resist the racist imposition of fisk/CR/Cockburn/assad/Isis/etc that muslim and anti-assad = jihadi.

 

[bimble]

I see lots and lots of brave defiant people. Making peace signs or are they victory ones. Not a beard amongst them.

 

[J Ed]

Please. Do watch.

Just horrible

 

[frogwoman]

what's assad's end game in all of this? What does he have to gain from making most of the country uninhabitable?

 

[butchersapron]

assad or the country burns

That's all. He told everyone he was going to do this and and he has done it.

 

[YouSir]

Displaying my ignorance but other than the Kurds what 'moderate' forces are there and what are their goals? Beyond knocking Assad off that is? Are they broad coalition forces or are they built on religious/political/regional blocs?

 

[kebabking]

what's assad's end game in all of this? What does he have to gain from making most of the country uninhabitable?

survival.

i imagine that even his harshest critic wouldn't suggest that his plan five years ago started out with 'i want to be the greatest mass murderer in my political lifetime, i want to create 6 million internal and external refugees, and i want to create a situation where so many disparate groups have emerged that i actually control about 25% of the territory that i do now...'.

he's in a situation where the lengths he's gone to have put in him well into 'toxic' territory, he can't leave because no one will have him - so he's in a death spiral (the poor dear..).

 

[butchersapron]

Displaying my ignorance but other than the Kurds what 'moderate' forces are there and what are their goals? Beyond knocking Assad off that is? Are they broad coalition forces or are they built on religious/political/regional blocs?

There are FSA and members of the SDF and other similar groups. They are democratic nationalist on the whole -that is, they are committed to pre-uprising borders and state integrity with a democratic constitution. They are present in all rebel held areas. They run the southern front. They are also present in YPG held areas and are preparing the liberation of raqqa and are gaining ground in hasaka. In the west they have allied with the YPG in afrin canton and are now attacking the non-isis beardies and preparing a push through to jarabulus to close the last ISIS turkey border. In the areas they liberate non-sectarian or tribal co-ordination committees take over. Don't believe the racist idea that muslims who are anti-assad = jihadi lies. Here are some figures.

 

[YouSir]

There are FSA and members of the SDF and other similar groups. They are democratic nationalist on the whole -that is, they are committed to pre-uprising borders and state integrity with a democratic constitution. They are present in all rebel held areas. They run the southern front. They are also present in YPG held areas and are preparing the liberation of raqqa and are gaing ground in hasaka. In the west they have allied with the YPG in afrin canton and are now attacking the non-isis beardies and preparing a opusg through to close the last ISIS turkey border. In the areas they liberate non-sectarian or tribal co-ordination committees take over. Don't believe the racist idea that muslims who are anti-assad = jihadi lies. Here are some figures.

I don't. I'm more interested in how leadership and members of these groups envision a post war Syria. Whether they have leaders who're looking to potentially place themselves in power (and how they'd do it), if they'd have a settlement with the Kurds, if they've shown an inclination towards reprisals etc. Wiki does talk of executions, torture and the like in relation to the FSA but that's Wiki, so not gospel/true necessarily.

Basically wondering if Syria has gone as far as Lebanon, where any peace is just going to be a mask for ever more internal struggles.

 

[butchersapron]

I don't. I'm more interested in how leadership and members of these groups envision a post war Syria. Whether they have leaders who're looking to potentially place themselves in power (and how they'd do it), if they'd have a settlement with the Kurds, if they've shown an inclination towards reprisals etc. Wiki does talk of executions, torture and the like in relation to the FSA but that's Wiki, so not gospel/true necessarily.

Basically wondering if Syria has gone as far as Lebanon, where any peace is just going to be a mask for ever more internal struggles.

FSA is not longer a useful term i think, but i can't find any other shorthand that covers stuff it. Lots of FSA extremists - no problem recognising that, but the shake-up over the last few months has the effect of pulling the non-beardies away and resetting those brigades on the original revolutionary footing. As regards the kurds, this resetting has only happened due to and now with kurd successes.

 

[butchersapron]

Basically wondering if Syria has gone as far as Lebanon, where any peace is just going to be a mask for ever more internal struggles.

Quite possibly.

 

[YouSir]

FSA is not longer a useful term i think, but i can't find any other shorthand that covers stuff it. Lots of FSA extremists - no problem recognising that, but the shake-up over the last few months has the effect of pulling the non-beardies away and resetting those brigades on the original revolutionary footing. As regards the kurds, this resetting has only happened due to and now with kurd successes.

I know Jihadis are the issue of the day and I guess it's impossible to know intent but would be good to have some understanding of threats beyond them. ISIS are fucked one way or another I reckon but heavily armed men who've spent years fighting aren't necessarily going to be much better afterwards. Even if the majority of them are fighting with good intent.

Quite possibly.

Aye, seems it. And any good solution I can think of will never happen, especially not with the leaders we have.

 

[YouSir]

FSA is not longer a useful term i think, but i can't find any other shorthand that covers stuff it. Lots of FSA extremists - no problem recognising that, but the shake-up over the last few months has the effect of pulling the non-beardies away and resetting those brigades on the original revolutionary footing. As regards the kurds, this resetting has only happened due to and now with kurd successes.

I know Jihadis are the issue of the day and I guess it's impossible to know intent but would be good to have some understanding of threats beyond them. ISIS are fucked one way or another I reckon but heavily armed men who've spent years fighting aren't necessarily going to be much better afterwards. Even if the majority of them are fighting with good intent.

Quite possibly.

Aye, seems it. And any good solution I can think of will never happen, especially not with the leaders we have.

 

[Pickman's model]

I know Jihadis are the issue of the day and I guess it's impossible to know intent but would be good to have some understanding of threats beyond them. ISIS are fucked one way or another I reckon but heavily armed men who've spent years fighting aren't necessarily going to be much better afterwards. Even if the majority of them are fighting with good intent.



Aye, seems it. And any good solution I can think of will never happen, especially not with the leaders we have.

perhaps the loss of our current leaders would be a good start to a solution.

 

[YouSir]

perhaps the loss of our current leaders would be a good start to a solution.

Would definitely be more useful than bombing. Unless it's them we're bombing of course.

 

[Pickman's model]

Would definitely be more useful than bombing. Unless it's them we're bombing of course.

you could cheer up iraqis, syrians and british people by the simple expedient of dropping the cabinet on raqqa.

 

[teqniq]

Syria: MSF hospital in Homs destroyed in barrel bombing

 

[bimble]

assad or the country burns
That's all. He told everyone he was going to do this and and he has done it.

With a little help from his friends.
Physicians for Human Rights - Russian Forces Carried Out at Least 10 Attacks on Medical Facilities in Syria in October

 

[butchersapron]

Displaying my ignorance but other than the Kurds what 'moderate' forces are there and what are their goals? Beyond knocking Assad off that is? Are they broad coalition forces or are they built on religious/political/regional blocs?

These people

 

[agricola]

you could cheer up iraqis, syrians and british people by the simple expedient of dropping the cabinet on raqqa.

pork barrel bombing?

 

[butchersapron]

pork barrel bombing?

You could have saved that - you probably did - but the delivery was amateur.

 

[frogwoman]

who's selling him the parts for the barrels, or is it something you can manufacture very easily?

 

[Casually Red]

I don't. I'm more interested in how leadership and members of these groups envision a post war Syria. Whether they have leaders who're looking to potentially place themselves in power (and how they'd do it), if they'd have a settlement with the Kurds, if they've shown an inclination towards reprisals etc. Wiki does talk of executions, torture and the like in relation to the FSA but that's Wiki, so not gospel/true necessarily.

Basically wondering if Syria has gone as far as Lebanon, where any peace is just going to be a mask for ever more internal struggles.

At the outset of this" revolution "jabhat al nusra...Syrian al Qaeda ... comprised approximately ten percent of the so called FSA . And did 90 percent of its fighting . Jabhat Al nusra was itself a creation of Islamic State. Intended to be the syrian franchise . Before they all fell out . The FSA was best of buddies with both of them . In fact was getting nowhere without them.
There's videos of their antics all over the Internet . I'll post a few if you like, I've already put them on this thread .

Islamic states western victims were also kidnapped by the FSA and then sold to Islamic state . Essentially the role of this FSA franchise is to launder weapons for the beardies . Theyre embedded among them and vastly outnumbered . Some FSA factions are also attacking the Kurds, pretty much as we speak .

Displaying my ignorance but other than the Kurds what 'moderate' forces are there and what are their goals? Beyond knocking Assad off that is? Are they broad coalition forces or are they built on religious/political/regional blocs?

None worth speaking of .

 

[butchersapron]

who's selling him the parts for the barrels, or is it something you can manufacture very easily?

They are every where. That's the point.

 

[teqniq]

who's selling him the parts for the barrels, or is it something you can manufacture very easily?

Easily manufactured out of gas cylinders packed with HE and shrapnel in the form of scrap metal bolts etc

 

[Casually Red]

Syria: MSF hospital in Homs destroyed in barrel bombing

A precision strike on a hospital by a weapon that's supposed to be totally inaccurate and just goes wherever it wants . Actually 2 of them. What are the odds ?

 

[teqniq]

If bullshit was made out of rubber you would bounce to the moon and back

 

[frogwoman]

Easily manufactured out of gas cylinders packed with HE and shrapnel in the form of scrap metal bolts etc

so you can easily make them with the wreckage that's lying around syria? fuck

 

[teqniq]

Pretty much.

 

[Idris2002]

A precision strike on a hospital by a weapon that's supposed to be totally inaccurate and just goes wherever it wants . Actually 2 of them. What are the odds ?

Well the fact that they are

Easily manufactured out of gas cylinders packed with HE and shrapnel in the form of scrap metal bolts etc

Which means that

so you can easily make them with the wreckage that's lying around syria? fuck

ensures that it's quite easy to build a lot of these devices, and fling them out of helicopters like it's going out of fashion - something which dramatically shortens the odds of them hitting something like, e.g. a hospital.