And next, Syria?

[elbows]

Perhaps you'll notice now one of the sect liked your post that says there's no sect you can notice.

Oh get a grip. These tedious suggestions about cliques and sects on u75 cheapen you, especially given the frequency with which you resort to them.

People find common ground at times, and there is a like button, big deal. And our well-trodden and dearly held stances are bound to lead us into the same sort of arguments and alignments time and time again. So what?

Take you and me. We argue plenty. Its not because of some allegiance to other forum members that either of us has, its because we are finding all manner of things to disagree with in each others posts.

 

[teqniq]

Perhaps you'll notice now one of the sect liked your post that says there's no sect you can notice.

What???

 

[gimesumtruf]

Isn't Iraq large enough or hasn't it got enough ISIL to go around for Cameron to concentrate our forces there, why Syria?

 

[camouflage]

We certainly need to work together with other countries and have a coherent strategy to defeat ISIS and ultimately bring about peace in the Middle East, something which appears to be desperately lacking at the moment. I'm don't think this will be achieved through bombs though and yet another military intervention. Surely past conflicts in Afghanistan, libya and Iraq show that us getting involved only makes things worse and destabilises the countries even further and makes them more insecure? It coud be argued that our interventions have actually helped fan the flames for terrorism and for barbaric groups such as ISIS to occupy, not to mention contribute towards the displacement of millions of refugees across Europe. Whatever we may think of dictators such as Hussein and Gadaffi, at least they were relatively stable before we got involved, not the terror-ridden, state of anarchy they are in today. Simply dropping bombs won't stop these people in my mind. Having enough police on our streets would be a start (which is hard due to Tory cuts), as well as tightening our own security (giving the security services the resources they need) and dealing with the root causes of radicalisation in our communities and prisons. We also need to be working with our neighbours across the world to try and find a diplomatic and peaceful solution to this.

There's a certain amount of SeptemberTenism going about lately... as if France wasn't already elbows-deep involved in the Syrian War, in fact supplying weapons and other support to the very factions associated with those that bombed Paris.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think we should be giving the security services unlimited power without proper safeguards in place to protect civil liberties and checks in place to make sure surveillance methods are working/effective. As for police cuts, I do believe that the huge Tory cuts to police on our streets at a time when we do face the threat of a potential Paris style attack in this country, is putting public safety at risk.

More flatfoots - even specialist flatfoots drilled in anti-terror measures - would make little difference, neither would increasing the budgets and staffing levels of the security services. What would make a difference is working to decrease the possibility of radicalisation through both domestic and foreign policy.

 

[bimble]

I advocate the use of nuclear weapons and would turn the entire region into glass.
I'd also ban Islam mind.

The not funny thing about this post is that it's basically a very close approximation of the things that I heard said over dinner during the last few days which I spent amongst perfectly decent people who can't be arsed to think about difficult confusing things and just watch the news on tv, which is a lot of people.

 

[kebabking]

Isn't Iraq large enough or hasn't it got enough ISIL to go around for Cameron to concentrate our forces there, why Syria?

the answer in pure military logic to that is that Syria is IS's engine room and wheelhouse. when you fight IS in Iraq you are landing blows on its arms and legs, not its head, heart or lungs. fighting IS in Iraq has military value, not least to people who might otherwise be living - or not - under its tender mercies had not IS's advance been stopped, but in terms of eventually defeating IS in the field, a 500lb bomb dropped on an IS HQ in Iraq acheives significantly less than a 500lb bomb dropped on an IS HQ in Syria.

if this was a naval battle, the broad equivelant would be racing around the Atlantic trying to sink its Destroyers rather than bombing its dockyards, bombing its HQ's, sinking the replenishment ships, and sinking the ships leaving the dockyards on their way out to the wide ocean.

while the current UK strike contribution is small - 8 Tornado GR4's - and its certainly fair to say that they don't lack work over Iraq, if they could also work over Syria they could bring to bare systems that many of the US and French aircraft attacking IS in Syria do not have. they would, because of those systems (which for very obvious reasons i'm not going to discuss on the internet), acheive more in terms of the eventual defeat of IS by flying over Syria than flying over Iraq because the targets they would hit would be more important than the targets they are currently hitting.

 

[camouflage]

Who is Derailing Syrian Reconciliation? | New Eastern Outlook

Midway snippet of the thinking on the Russian side...

There’s no use hoping that at some point Riyadh and Doha will turn their backs on their Syrian war plan, since they have already invested tens of billions of dollars in it. This means that the basis for constructive talks could be created only when the regular Syrian troops score a considerable number of victories on the battlefield.

The compromise with the West and the Arabian monarchies can be reached if all parties agree to hold presidential elections in Syria without the participation of Bashar al-Assad, while all the representatives of the Syrian government will be provided with guarantees from the international legal bodies that they are not going to be prosecuted in any way. Should this scenario be pursued, Syria’s president will have to hand over a majority of his powers to the elected prime minister, while Moscow and Tehran will be allowed to maintain their military presence in Syria for the time being.
First appeared: Who is Derailing Syrian Reconciliation? | New Eastern Outlook

and other stuff, for instance the looming threat of a Turkish intervention.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

the answer in pure military logic to that is that Syria is IS's engine room and wheelhouse. when you fight IS in Iraq you are landing blows on its arms and legs, not its head, heart or lungs. fighting IS in Iraq has military value, not least to people who might otherwise be living - or not - under its tender mercies had not IS's advance been stopped, but in terms of eventually defeating IS in the field, a 500lb bomb dropped on an IS HQ in Iraq acheives significantly less than a 500lb bomb dropped on an IS HQ in Syria.

if this was a naval battle, the broad equivelant would be racing around the Atlantic trying to sink its Destroyers rather than bombing its dockyards, bombing its HQ's, sinking the replenishment ships, and sinking the ships leaving the dockyards on their way out to the wide ocean.

while the current UK strike contribution is small - 8 Tornado GR4's - and its certainly fair to say that they don't lack work over Iraq, if they could also work over Syria they could bring to bare systems that many of the US and French aircraft attacking IS in Syria do not have. they would, because of those systems (which for very obvious reasons i'm not going to discuss on the internet), acheive more in terms of the eventual defeat of IS by flying over Syria than flying over Iraq because the targets they would hit would be more important than the targets they are currently hitting.

Do the Tornadoes have capacity the mighty USAF lack?

 

[DownwardDog]

Do the Tornadoes have capacity the mighty USAF lack?

No, they are just there for political reasons. There is absolutely no reason you would put a GR4 in the strike package instead of a Strike Eagle, Hornet, Rafale or even a Mirage 2000 Diesel. They are slow, unreliable and are fussy refuellers that are just taking slots in the ATO away from more capable platforms IMO.

 

[kebabking]

Do the Tornadoes have capacity the mighty USAF lack?

They have a capacity that the majority of US strike aircraft lack - for all their faults...

 

[Artaxerxes]

They have a capacity that the majority of US strike aircraft lack - for all their faults...

Which is...?

 

[DownwardDog]

Which is...?

I assume KK is referring to the RAPTOR recon pod but the Op Shader GR4s have not deployed with it and are not using it on anti-ISIS ops in Iraq.

 

[kebabking]

I assume KK is referring to the RAPTOR recon pod but the Op Shader GR4s have not deployed with it and are not using it on anti-ISIS ops in Iraq.

i'm not.

Which is...?

its to do with targetting and weapons effect.

 

[Artaxerxes]

its to do with targetting and weapons effect.

A penchant for hitting the right targets and making things go boom?

 

[kebabking]

A penchant for hitting the right targets and making things go boom?

one would hope so. in this case its also about making things go boom but in a slightly less spectacular way than if you employed the more standard method.

 

[sleaterkinney]

Putin is giving away puppies.

Russia sends police puppy to France to replace Diesel

 

[Leftwinger]

More flatfoots - even specialist flatfoots drilled in anti-terror measures - would make little difference, neither would increasing the budgets and staffing levels of the security services. What would make a difference is working to decrease the possibility of radicalisation through both domestic and foreign policy.

That's your opinion. However, I do agree with you that we should be working to decrease radicalisation in communities to address the causes of terrorism and ultimately stop it, rather than simply deal with it when it has happened or is going to happen. Increasing police, giving more power to the security services and bombing ISIS does none of this in terms of prevention.

 

[ViolentPanda]

That's your opinion. However, I do agree with you that we should be working to decrease radicalisation in communities to address the causes of terrorism and ultimately stop it, rather than simply deal with it when it has happened or is going to happen. Increasing police, giving more power to the security services and bombing ISIS does none of this in terms of prevention.

Yes it is my opinion, but it's supported by having lived through the PIRA attacks in London between the '70s and the '90s. All those extra bodies, all that extra legislation, stopped very little. Extra coppers is about the government being seen to be "doing something" (generally in order to appease the media).

 

[Pickman's model]

That's your opinion. However, I do agree with you that we should be working to decrease radicalisation in communities to address the causes of terrorism and ultimately stop it, rather than simply deal with it when it has happened or is going to happen. Increasing police, giving more power to the security services and bombing ISIS does none of this in terms of prevention.

we do not have increasing police. we have passed peak police.

 

[Casually Red]

Oh get a grip. These tedious suggestions about cliques and sects on u75 cheapen you, especially given the frequency with which you resort to them.

People find common ground at times, and there is a like button, big deal. And our well-trodden and dearly held stances are bound to lead us into the same sort of arguments and alignments time and time again. So what?

Take you and me. We argue plenty. Its not because of some allegiance to other forum members that either of us has, its because we are finding all manner of things to disagree with in each others posts.

Im not talking about actual points of view or stances, im talking about a group on here that resorts to concerted smear campaigns against forum users . When absolutely outrageous posts are made on here repeatedly denouncing certain members of this forum as actual, real proper fascists on the most spurious of grounds , across multiple threads, by the same small group of people and are routinely liked by the same small group of people then we have a clique or sect, call it what you will . A clique or sect which Has combined in the past to drive posters from the forum by repeatedly smearing and attacking them, and in this instance obviously seeks to have posters banned by peddling the smear of fascist against them in the hope of securing a banning, in order to censor their opinions that diverge from their own . which has been done now numerous times and is happening again .
that's what I'm talking about .

 

[Geri]

Putin is giving away puppies.

Russia sends police puppy to France to replace Diesel

It's probably a spy.

 

[JimW]

It's probably a spy.

Plus a bit insensitive, like them people who say when your dog dies, "You can always get another one."

 

[Casually Red]

Vid here of the survivors of the Kweires airbase siege being reunited with their families after almost 3 years beseigement by assorted head hackers , including dash, who regularly threw the kitchen sink at the gaff but failed to take it . Virtually every one of the 300 odd survivors were either wounded or contracted illnesses , or both . But they never gave up . An amazing feat of endurance . Most of them were just cadets trapped in the base when war broke out .

 

[coley]

Sadly, nothing we can do is ever going to totally protect us from a potential terrorist attack. But cutting the number of police on our streets is clearly not going to help. What is your view on the police cuts/cuts in general?

Slightly off topic, but the Tories kept the OB sweet while their was an organised and powerful union movement, after 84 the OB had served its purpose and could be disregarded and slimmed down, after Wednesday, I suspect they will look positively anorexic (with the exception of the Met)
But it's guaranteed that much more money will be poured into those services designed to keep an eye on us all.

 

[coley]

Who is Derailing Syrian Reconciliation? | New Eastern Outlook

Midway snippet of the thinking on the Russian side...



and other stuff, for instance the looming threat of a Turkish intervention.

What "looming Turkish intervention"?

 

[camouflage]

What "looming Turkish intervention"?

Looming threat thereof... according to the article, dunno if you read it.

 

[camouflage]

Vid here of the survivors of the Kweires airbase siege being reunited with their families after almost 3 years beseigement by assorted head hackers , including dash, who regularly threw the kitchen sink at the gaff but failed to take it . Virtually every one of the 300 odd survivors were either wounded or contracted illnesses , or both . But they never gave up . An amazing feat of endurance . Most of them were just cadets trapped in the base when war broke out .

Unimaginable what they must of gone through, let's hope they survive the war and the ptsd too... same for the whole country really. Dunno what accommodations Syria has made with their enemies in the course of this war but resistance like that speaks for itself.

 

[Jeremiah18.17]

So, a civil war close to the geopolitically most hard fought over areas of the world, with multiple factions backed by two armed blocs/alliances, each with their own opposed strategic aims and no agreement on the resolution of the civil war, who are briefly united in agreeing to attempt to eliminate a violent millenarian cult who aim to bring about the end of days, possibly by drawing its opponents into situations where they may come into direct conflict with one another rather than the usual proxy wars. What could possibly go wrong?............

 

[coley]

Looming threat thereof... according to the article, dunno if you read it.

Aye,sorry, missed the link, will read it again the morn, bit complicated this time of night.