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And next, Syria?

camouflage said:
The usual flim flam.
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Did you even read it?

Its kind of sad the way you dismiss everything out of hand that doesn't fit your narrow view and in response post stuff from all manner of dodgy types. I don't understand why you are unwilling to apply your critical analysis (which you do well when assessing Western governments) to Russia or Assad. You just come across as a totally unquestioning fan boi that just sticks his fingers in his ears any time something is said which doesn't fit your Putin = brilliant in every way and Western Governments = terrible in every way binary view.

It's bizarre to say the least. CR is a bit of a loon and has all manner of odd and dodgy views on a number of subjects, but you, I just don't understand it all.
 
butchersapron said:
YPG General Commander on number of things.

Key for this thread seems to be a) holding back on anti-regime rhetoric b) Many references to coming assault that i think we can assume means raqqa.
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Had a migraine so brain not working fully, but just found this analysis from a few days ago which I found quite interesting and it overlaps with your key points I think.

Marching south from Kobani: The end of ISIS in Raqqa

Whats this source like? My lack of Kurdish knowledge in general is a disgrace, its going to take me a while to catch up.
 
elbows said:
Had a migraine so brain not working fully, but just found this analysis from a few days ago which I found quite interesting and it overlaps with your key points I think.

Marching south from Kobani: The end of ISIS in Raqqa

Whats this source like? My lack of Kurdish knowledge in general is a disgrace, its going to take me a while to catch up.
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Basically the barzani wing of the krg in Syria (western Kurdistan). Inconsistent relationship with pyd/ypg. From close-ish relationship at start to verbal war more recently and with refusal of ypg to deal with them. I think the barzani mob will want a bit of any glory that comes out of the raqqa campaign.

Edit : sorry to hear about the migraines, they truly are the Devil's work.
 
Thanks and thanks. At least I can go without migraines for weeks or even months at a time without any if I'm real lucky, unlike some.
 
Teaboy said:
Did you even read it?

Its kind of sad the way you dismiss everything out of hand that doesn't fit your narrow view and in response post stuff from all manner of dodgy types. I don't understand why you are unwilling to apply your critical analysis (which you do well when assessing Western governments) to Russia or Assad. You just come across as a totally unquestioning fan boi that just sticks his fingers in his ears any time something is said which doesn't fit your Putin = brilliant in every way and Western Governments = terrible in every way binary view.

It's bizarre to say the least. CR is a bit of a loon and has all manner of odd and dodgy views on a number of subjects, but you, I just don't understand it all.
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I read as far as here...

Ilya Budraitskis: It has been several days since the start of the Russian military operation in Syria and the goals and strategy of this operation are still unclear. The explanation coming from Russian officials is unclear. On one hand they put an anti-ISIS agenda as the main reason of the operation, and on the other they present it, like Putin did at the UN, as an aid to the legitimate government of Assad. What do you think is the real goal of this operation?

Gilbert Achcar: The initial official reason for the intervention was designed in order for Russia to get a Western, and especially American, green light. Since Western countries are bombing ISIS in Syria they were certainly not in a position to object to Russia doing the same. It is under this pretext that Putin sold his intervention to Washington before implementing it, and Washington bought it. At the very beginning, before Russian planes started bombing, the statements from Washington were welcoming Russia’s contribution to the fight against ISIS. This was completely illusionary, of course – a pure deception. But I would really be surprised if, in Washington, they really believed that Russia was deploying forces to Syria in order to fight ISIS.

They couldn’t have possibly ignored that the real goal of Russia’s intervention is to shore up Bashar al-Assad’s regime. The fact is, however, that Washington agrees even on this true goal of Moscow’s intervention – preventing the collapse of the Assad regime. Since the early phase of the uprising in Syria, the US administration, even when it started saying that Assad should step down, always emphasized that the regime should remain in place. Contrarily to what simplistic critics of the US believe, the Obama administration is not at all in the business of “regime change” in Syria – it is rather the contrary. They just wanted the Assad regime without Assad himself.
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before feeling the need to skip forward to get an idea of how much more time I'd have to waste to get through the whole thing.

I have read it all by the way, it's utter brain-rot. The starting presumptions are so deeply entrenched in Westcentric cartoon reality I honestly can't be asked with dissecting it. Russia an aspiring empire ffs... really? I mean really??? Addressing that concept possibly deserves a thread in itself to be honest.

Anyway have a look at exactly what Russia sez on the tin (courtesy of a Lavrov pc) an let me know your thoughts...

 
Teaboy said:
Did you even read it?

Its kind of sad the way you dismiss everything out of hand that doesn't fit your narrow view and in response post stuff from all manner of dodgy types. I don't understand why you are unwilling to apply your critical analysis (which you do well when assessing Western governments) to Russia or Assad. You just come across as a totally unquestioning fan boi that just sticks his fingers in his ears any time something is said which doesn't fit your Putin = brilliant in every way and Western Governments = terrible in every way binary view.

It's bizarre to say the least. CR is a bit of a loon and has all manner of odd and dodgy views on a number of subjects, but you, I just don't understand it all.
Click to expand...

The article is a complete and utter load of bollocks . Putin wasn't seeking any green light from the united states..or their permission. He reiterated that unlike them he has permission from the only people that legitimately count..the Syrian government . That his proposed coalition was the legitimate one and he was inviting the western states to go about their business lawfully..by joining the Syrian/ Russian/ Iranian coalition...soon to include Iraq by the sounds of things . They refused , they objected to Russia's presence, John McCain called for stingers to be given to the jihadists, Hilary Clinton shrieked that Russian planes should be shot down . The mad bitch .

Putin wasn't selling anything to Washington . He assured them in new york that in the event of any Russian military action in Syria he would tell them in advance . 24 hours later a minor Russian general.. literally...knocked on the door of the US military compound in Baghdad and informed them the bombing would start in one hour .and if they'd anyone on the ground to move them immediately . An hour later they were flattening jihadists left right and centre while the yanks sat with their mouths open . And then they started flapping their arms like demented chickens
 
laurel-hardy.jpg
 
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teqniq said:
I think I'll go with the Lebanese academic's analysis than your 'utter load of bollox' 0/10.
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Casually Reds portrayal of events is actually accurate though... it's only been a few days since Russias participation against the Daesh began, so a bit early to re-narrative into this 'Lebanese academics' story isn't it?

Frankly I think CasuallyRed is very kind to have taken the time to bother pointing this all out. It's a bit like talking someone down from a trip thats gone bad. Personally I can't be asked, you want to gobble down random pills found on the street outside the club, you go for it. Why you feel the need to do so is beyond me. Happily the sort of bollocks people are willing to beleive on random internet forums won't necessarily change events on the ground where currently some of the CIA mercs and jihadis that have brought such tragedy to Syria are getting blown away. If only they had never been able to bring war to Syria in the first place, unfortunately the damage isalready done and the hundreds of thousands killed in this crap so far while the deluded Left-flank of NATO cheered on can't be bought back to life.
 
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For some people the internet is a real boon, a benefit, a way to bolster critical investigation and facilitate research. You, the internet has ruined you. If you ever knew how to do the former (and i see no evidence of that over the years) it's gone now, replaced by typing US and CIA into google and spewing the results around the internet to other types the internet has similarly ruined. Like mothers feeding their chicks via regurgitation. Except there's no mother, just chicks. There is though, that other habit of young animals of clutching onto the first powerful thing that gives them what they need.
 
butchersapron said:
For some people the internet is a real boon, a benefit, a way to bolster critical investigation and facilitate research. You, the internet has ruined you. If you ever knew how to do the former (and i see no evidence of that over the years) it's gone now, replaced by typing US and CIA into google and spewing the results around the internet to other types the internet has similarly ruined. Like mothers feeding their chicks via regurgitation. Except there's no mother, just chicks. There is though, that other habit of young animals of clutching onto the first powerful thing that gives them what they need.
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Watch Putins UN speech

Watch Lavrovs press conference

Watch Putins press conference


Watch the events that unfolded from that point on re Russian strikes in Syria.

Let me know the bit where Russia asks US permission, and let me know at what point you became confused as to Russias stated intentions.

Chicks and powerful things, very poetic etc. Meanwhile back on Earth- events unfold for people to see for themselves.
 
camouflage said:
No, question, think. Watch what powerful politicians say they're doing. And then watch what they do. All very simple.
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Then ignore what they do is more your MO:

1) We are here to attack ISIS
What follows is a
2) Massive wave of attacks on non ISIS rebels to the benefit of ISIS

The next stage is to forget 1. Or the CR approach which is to pretend that 2) is actually 1). Either way, you're not watching what they say and do to find gaps or contradictions that indicate covert or unspoken interests with an eye to wider analysis - what you're doing is watching what they're saying and ignoring what they're doing while attempting to justify both. Comical Alis. But at least he knew what he was doing - only one of this pair does.
 
FT have a sub-only biggish article on ISIS and the regime working together on energy installations - i have a copy but it's long, any interest in me posting it? There's a suggestion of 'necessary complicity' but also of wider shared benefit.

There's also this

Inside Isis Inc: The journey of a barrel of oil

Isis controls most of Syria’s oil fields and crude is the militant group's biggest single source of revenue. Here we follow the progress of a barrel of oil from extraction to end user to see how the Isis production system works, who is making money from it, and why it is proving so challenging to disrupt.
Click to expand...
 
butchersapron said:
Then ignore what they do is more your MO:

1) We are here to attack ISIS
What follows is a
2) Massive wave of attacks on non ISIS rebels to the benefit of ISIS

The next stage is to forget 1. Or the CR approach which is to pretend that 2) is actually 1). Either way, you're not watching what they say and do to find gaps or contradictions that indicate covert or unspoken interests with an eye to wider analysis - what you're doing is watching what they're saying and ignoring what they're doing while attempting to justify both. Comical Alis. But at least he knew what he was doing - only one of this pair does.
Click to expand...

Ah yes- because they said they'd attack 'ISIS', but they're attacking Al Qaeda and other looks-like-walks-like-fights-like folk, and people Brzinski called American assets. I really should go to my room and think about what I have done.
 
butchersapron said:
Don't turn on the computer while you're in there. Clear your head for a few months.
Click to expand...

That actually made me chuckle, I suggest you do the same. Frankly your desperate pro-NATO shillary of late has become embarrassing, it's almost as bad as if you worked for The Guardian or The Economist or something.
 
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J Ed said:
Yes please
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Good timing as i'm just out the door - apols to others for the length and formatting:

part 1:
Isis Inc: Syria's mafia style gas deals with jihadis

Erika Solomon in Beirut and Ahmed Mhidi, an independent journalist based
on the Turkish border

The need for energy drives Assad regime into a deadly game where
state-run company staff are pawns

After four years of war, Ahmed thought he had finally been given a break
when he landed a job at Syria’s national gas company. Then he was
assigned his new supervisors: the militant group, Isis.

For $80 a month, the 25-year-old petroleum engineering graduate from
Deir Ezzor spent a nightmarish year working at the Tuweinan gas plant —
one of several that have in effect become joint ventures between
President Bashar al-Assad’s government and the world’s most notorious
jihadi group.

The plant is not far from a military base where Isis months earlier had
killed dozens of soldiers and displayed their heads on spikes. “It was
frightening, but I didn’t have a choice,” says Ahmed in a phone
interview. Like all employees interviewed, he asked to change his name
for his family’s safety. “For people like me, you basically have no
other work opportunities in Syria.”

Isis and the Assad regime remain battleground enemies, but on Syria’s
gasfields the need for electricity has forced them into a Faustian
bargain.

Gas supplies 90 per cent of Syria’s power grid, on which Isis and the
Assad regime depend. Isis controls at least eight power plants in Syria,
including three hydroelectric facilities and the country’s largest gas
plant. The regime has companies that know how to run them.
Syrian activists and western officials have long accused the regime of
making secret oil deals with Isis, which controls nearly all of Syria’s
petroleum-producing east. But an FT investigation shows co-operation is
strongest over the gas that generates Syria’s electricity. Interviews
with over a dozen Syrian energy employees have revealed agreements that
are less about cash than about services — something they may find more
valuable than money.

The business deals do not translate into a truce. The two sides
continually attack one another’s employees and infrastructure. The
regime points to these clashes as proof that such understandings do not
exist. In a written statement, Syria’s Ministry of Oil and Natural
Resources said: “There is no co-ordination with the terrorist groups
regarding this matter.” But it acknowledged some of its employees work
under Isis “for the sake of preserving the security and safety of these
facilities”.

But others describe the fighting as part of a struggle for better terms,
where neither seeks to destroy the other. “Think of it as tactical
manoeuvres to improve leverage,” said the owner of one Syrian energy
company, who met the FT but asked not to be named. “This is 1920s
Chicago mafia-style negotiation. You kill and fight to influence the
deal, but the deal doesn’t end.”

Deadly game

The pawns in this deadly game are employees of state-run energy
companies and the private groups they contract.

Instead of worrying over valves and pipelines, Ahmed spent much of his
time at Tuweinan parsing a high-stakes mind game with his militant
overseers. They beat workers regularly, and even killed one in front of
his colleagues.

“The worst part is knowing that once you’re there, you belong to no
one,” he said. “To both the regime and to Isis, you become
untrustworthy.”

Like Ahmed, most workers sent to Isis territory are from Syria’s Sunni
Muslim majority, who drove the revolt that spawned Syria’s brutal civil
war against the Assad family and elites from their minority Alawite sect
that have dominated the state. Many members of Syria’s minorities have
supported Mr Assad — especially since Isis overtook the rebellion and
branded non-Sunnis infidels.

Marwan, another Sunni engineering graduate who worked for the Syrian Gas
Company before fleeing the country this summer, says only minorities and
Sunnis with good political connections can secure jobs in
government-controlled areas. Less fortunate employees find little
sympathy from the state company if they try to avoid a posting in an
Isis-controlled plant.

“If you try and complain, they say, ‘Forget about it. Trust me, it’s
better in the Isis areas, people are happier there’,” Marwan, a
bespectacled 25-year-old, told the FT.

Workers say that in agreements between Isis and the regime, the Syrian
state and private gas companies pay and feed their employees and supply
equipment to the facilities. The two sides divide the electricity
produced from the methane heavy “dry gas”, while Isis gets the fuel
products made from the plants’ liquid gas.

For example, employees at Tuweinan say its gas is sent to the Isis-held
Aleppo thermal power plant. When facilities are working — there are
frequent outages due to the instability in the area — the Tuweinan deal
nets the regime 50mw of electricity each day. Isis takes 70mw.
At most plants where the two sides co-operate, Isis gives its daily
output of liquid petroleum or cooking gas, and condensate — used for
generators — to its own members or sells it to locals. At Tuweinan,
unstable conditions mean it currently produces about 300 barrels of
condensate but no cooking gas.

Tuweinan is partly run by the Syrian company Hesco, whose owner, George
Haswani, is under EU sanctions on suspicion of dealing with the regime
and Isis. Several workers said Hesco sends Isis 15m Syrian lira (about
$50,000) every month to protect its equipment, which is worth several
million dollars.

Michel Haswani, the owners’ son and a manager at Hesco, denies this. He
said that claims the company pays Isis or communicates with it in any
way are “not true and imprecise”. But he says that Isis was “partly”
running the plant.
 
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