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Anarchists sabotage railway signalling in Bristol

Is it a 'branch' though? Or just a name that anyone can set up under and run with?

Jon-of-arc

Indeed. We have no idea. I find it hard to envisage the highly organised group depicted in the vice article, with cells who communicate and have "manifestos" and some sort of common tactics, goals and structure. But that's what's being reported, true or not, I have no particular issue with the term terrorist. Might be stretching the definition a bit with the wurzel "cells" actions, tbf.
 
Indeed. We have no idea. I find it hard to envisage the highly organised group depicted in the vice article, with cells who communicate and have "manifestos" and some sort of common tactics, goals and structure. But that's what's being reported, true or not, I have no particular issue with the term terrorist. Might be stretching the definition a bit with the wurzel "cells" actions, tbf.

Terrorism is a particular political strategy that aims to achieve a certain effect regarding public confidence. Any old vandalism or arson doesn't quite cut it. Of course the state will want to make it stick for lengthy time banged up but it flies in the face of what terrorism actually is. How does damaging unoccupied property knock public confidence?
 
Terrorism is a particular political strategy that aims to achieve a certain effect regarding public confidence. Any old vandalism or arson doesn't quite cut it. Of course the state will want to make it stick for lengthy time banged up but it flies in the face of what terrorism actually is. How does damaging unoccupied property knock public confidence?

Fair point. Again, I was mostly referring to the some of the things some of the Europe groups had done, but for the purpose of this discussion, i'll keep it about the uk bods.

I don't think they are terrorists. They certainly don't seem to be describing themselves as such. They don't seem to have any strong desire to influence public opinion or state policy via the means of intimidation. That said, they do seem to be employing some of the tactics of terrorist groups. Attacks on property and infrastructure were key to IRA mainland bombing campaigns. I had LiamO once say to me that there was no evidence that any of the bombings ever intended to kill anyone. No idea if this is true or not, but certainly plenty of their bombs came with warnings that allowed plenty of time to evacuate all areas of danger. So it is a tactic that terrorists use.

Of course, you are right that it dilutes the term some what. The media will probably use it, though, and given that this group have allied themselves with others who are using terror tactics there is some justification. Hyperbole, but not an out and out falsehood. If some Muslims tried something similar and claimed to be affiliated with al Qaeda, then the term would be used without hesitation.
 
If some Muslims tried something similar and claimed to be affiliated with al Qaeda, then the term would be used without hesitation.

Yes, but their claim to be affiliated to al-Q would be pretty dubious. Al-Q are into spectacular murder. That's part of their brand.

Al-Q and their ilk are part of the problem for fifth-rate terrorists, like the Anarcho-Arsonists, looking for publicity. Al-Q keeps upstaging them.
 
Attacks on property and infrastructure were key to IRA mainland bombing campaigns. I had LiamO once say to me that there was no evidence that any of the bombings ever intended to kill anyone. No idea if this is true or not, but certainly plenty of their bombs came with warnings that allowed plenty of time to evacuate all areas of danger. So it is a tactic that terrorists use.

Yes, but like I said, it's about altering public confidence. Bombing campaigns are very effective at making people feel uneasy on the street and force states to bring in draconian measures that affect civil liberties etc. and of course theres a likelihood it will lead to fatalities. Arson on unoccupied buildings and pissing around with railways and communication systems is more about disrupting capitalism than scaring the fuck out of everyone with possible fatalities.
 
I'm wondering if any of the recent firebomb attacks on mosques have been described as terrorism. They're clearly political acts of arson.
 
Fire services bought in a special pump from Wales to deliver extra water to the training centre, which was set to be utilised by three police forces from next year.

Welsh water on Somerset soil? This is getting murky.


edit: though the pump can do proper water too i see.
 
I wonder why then. Although I guess it depends whether they're occupied at the time. Or whether politics + arson = terrorism.


Burning down a fur shop would be seen as political arson - fire bombing a mosque with arson intent (with people inside) would be an act of terrorising. Or summat close to that anyway :)
 
Burning down a fur shop would be seen as political arson - fire bombing a mosque with arson intent (with people inside) would be an act of terrorising. Or summat close to that anyway :)

So burning down a building site with political intent isn't terrorism?
 
The firearms centre is one of four building projects being undertaken by the Blue Light Partnership under a £129 million PFI (Private Finance Initiative) for the Avon & Somerset Constabulary.

As well as the Black Rock Quarry site, there will be three 'custody and crime investigation centres' (AKA big police stations), which will be sited in north Bristol (90 Gloucester Road), Keynsham (Ashmead Road) and Bridgwater (Express Park - also acting as Operations Base for Somerset), and collectively offer bed-and-board to guests in 132 separate rooms.

http://bluelightpartnership.co.uk/
http://asp-accommodation-programme.info/our-plans/

The WhatDoTheyKnow Freedom of Information request site is handy for tracking stuff about this, especially users like Dave Orr - eg https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/101509/response/257232/attach/html/2/Gateway 3 Interim Report redacted version.pdf.html
 
At last the Mail's pulled its finger out, and after the Post stole everyone's thunder by posting the communiqué in its entirety, Wheeler patched together some old blog posts and BIM articles for his C4 News piece, Shiv went offroad for the Grauniad, where was left for them to go?

Well, in DacreLand, they're all meline groovy:

Anti-badger cull group claim they torched £16m police firing range which burned to the ground

Oh, and:

ACAB is an anti-police acronym often integrated into prison tattoos and used by skinheads and football hooligans.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-16m-police-firing-range-burned-ground.html
 
Of course it is terrorism, if you want to argue whether or not its supportable that's fine, but as a series of crimes they're terrorist actions.

At least dissident republicans are less moralistic about their actions and how you refer to them, anarchist remain an overly sensitive bunch of souls.

only under tony blair's bullshit definition of terrorism that includes pretty much any form of politically motivated property damage as terrorism.

Under the common understanding of the word, it's nothing of the sort - nobody has been terrorised, nobody has been hurt, nothing other than a few bank balances of corporations or state agencies have actually been damaged*.

A few people have been inconvenienced - that does not amount to terrorism, and you saying it does in the press simply helps to justify the government position on redefining terrorism to allow them to use the most draconian legislation against anyone who protests using methods that are a bit more confrontational than A-B marches.

This should be treated as criminal damage / arson, nothing more - why does it justify the potential of extended periods of detention without trial on arrest, and all the powers granted for dealing with actual terrorists who aim to blow as many people up as they can just because the motivation is political?



* well, maybe a fair few subbies who risked leaving their tools on site overnight

ps this is a post against the misuse of the anti-terrorism legislation, and it's justification in the public mindset through articles and headlines like yours, rather than a post in support of these actions specifically. Property damage is not the same as deliberately setting out to kill and maim people, and this difference should be clearly spelled out at all opportunities by anyone in the press who likes to think of themselves as not being part of the problem / different to the daily mail hacks IMO.
 
Property damage is not the same as deliberately setting out to kill and maim people...


No it is not, and anyone pondering the merits or otherwise of these actions should bear in mind that the building targeted was intended to train people to use weapons which do maim and kill people. It makes more sense to me to see this as an action against violence rather than as a violent action.

e2a: That doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't a daft thing to do from a tactical, political or any other standpoint. I really haven't made up my mind tbh, but I have to admit that pictures of a police weapons training centre going up in flames do give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
 
Of course it is terrorism, if you want to argue whether or not its supportable that's fine, but as a series of crimes they're terrorist actions.

At least dissident republicans are less moralistic about their actions and how you refer to them, anarchist remain an overly sensitive bunch of souls.

Were the Luddites and Swing rioters terrorists too? If you were reporting on something like that in a modern context would you use the word terrorism to describe them? Not that I'd favourably compare the IAF to the Luddites I hasten to add...

I've always thought of terrorism distinct from political violence or vandalism in that it attempts to carry out political change by terrifying the population with indiscriminate and spectacular acts of violence, often direcly against civilians. Creating that mass panic and fear is the goal, and the violence is a means to that end. Some types of political violence might be terrifying and spectacular but they are the by-product, the aim might be something else. I know that's abit of an arbitrary two-way split, there's obviously a crossover and they're not exclusive at all, but that's how I tend to differentiate how and when to use the word terrorist.
 
Is the IAF not an anarchist terror network? What would you call a group of people operating with unity of purpose to carry out bombings across several countries? Or do you just think they don't exist?

1) The IAF is an anarchist network.
2) Some purported members of this network have claimed responsibility for various explosions, fires and vandalism of zoos.
3) There's a big difference between claiming responsibility and carrying out acts of terror.

These publicity-hungry muppets love people like you, because in your haste you elide all the above in favour of a striking headline and a sensationalist story.
 
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