Anarchist Bookfair 2013 October 19th

[butchersapron]

I fully understand that the AF women's caucus document was a women's caucus document and not AF policy. But the fact that it was produced by the women's caucus indicates that those ideas have some purchase in that milieu. Just as the WSM publishing intersectional material indicates the same, even though they haven't actually replaced their position papers with privilege politics. But the spread of these ideas has been faster in disorganised parts of anarchism, certainly.

As for "the anarchist naming of itself" bit, well that's another issue. A lot of these people are essentially liberals, adopting the anarchist tag. But there are also people coming out of "proper anarchism" in the same circles, having the same twitter conversations, with the same people. This stuff has a pull. I mentioned before being stunned to find an SP intersectionalist on twitter. Look at how it's at least tolerated on libcom of all places (and I'm sure you remember how identity politics stuff of any stripe used to go down there).

It was one yank from a private college. (AF that is)

Sorry nigel, this is still not my experience.

 

[butchersapron]

Can anyone from the AF explain why they were flogging Durrutti stuff?

Eh?

 

[cesare]

Eh?

I would have thought that the syndicalism aspect (Durutti being a bit of a poster boy for it) would signal the difference that traditionally keeps them at opposite ends of the hall?

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I would have thought that the syndicalism aspect (Durutti being a bit of a poster boy for it) would signal the difference that traditionally keeps them at opposite ends of the hall?

he was FAI though wasn't he?

 

[butchersapron]

I would have thought that the syndicalism aspect (Durutti being a bit of a poster boy for it) would signal the difference that traditionally keeps them at opposite ends of the hall?

Or, being an anarcho-communist sol-fed can't sell books about him.

 

[cesare]

 

[Nigel Irritable]

It was one yank from a private college. (AF that is)[/quote

Sorry nigel, this is still not my experience.

Sure, and the driving force behind the WSM giving this stuff an outing is probably one or two people. And those libcommers who now favour it probably aren't exactly legion either. And the twitter conversations involve no more than dozens. I'm not claiming that it has taken over. Just that it's now present and acceptable and growing in anarchist circles. And that's how the most left-inclined twitter intersectionalists factually do describe themselves.

I doubt if this stuff is too much of a force on the ground as of yet, but if you follow a bunch of anarchists and feminists on twitter you can't avoid it.

 

[cesare]

Sure, and the driving force behind the WSM giving this stuff an outing is probably one or two people. And those libcommers who now favour it probably aren't exactly legion either. And the twitter conversations involve no more than dozens. I'm not claiming that it has taken over. Just that it's now present and acceptable and growing in anarchist circles. And that's how the most left-inclined twitter intersectionalists factually do describe themselves.

I doubt if this stuff is too much of a force on the ground as of yet, but if you follow a bunch of anarchists and feminists on twitter you can't avoid it.

All this tells us is that you think that a few active anarchist twitterers represent anarchists.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Sure, and the driving force behind the WSM giving this stuff an outing is probably one or two people. And those libcommers who now favour it probably aren't exactly legion either. And the twitter conversations involve no more than dozens. I'm not claiming that it has taken over. Just that it's now present and acceptable and growing in anarchist circles. And that's how the most left-inclined twitter intersectionalists factually do describe themselves.

I doubt if this stuff is too much of a force on the ground as of yet, but if you follow a bunch of anarchists and feminists on twitter you can't avoid it.

It's fair to say that intersectionalism is growing generally in leftist and liberal circles but it does seem to be overwhelmingly concentrated in the younger more studenty and mobile (dare I say rootless) elements a bit like how in the past Crimethinc and Primitivism stuff has been with some... However the adaptability of intersectionalism might well suggest it will have more staying power than those, and certainly a much broader reach. Do not think the CWI is immune.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

as an aside I pushed in front of one of the ICC loons at the bar in the Wetherspoons, thought to myself for a second shall I let him go first? Nah.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

All this tells us is that you think that a few active anarchist twitterers represent anarchists.

It really shouldn't. Saying that the more radical end of the twitter intersectionalists tend to call themselves anarchists is a statement of fact, but it in no way implies that a large percentage of anarchists are intersectionalists. The intersectionalists are noisy and growing but still relatively few, particularly at the more radical end of their spectrum (which is where the crossover happens).

 

[Nigel Irritable]

Do not think the CWI is immune.

Certainly not.

For overlapping but slightly different reasons, the Anarchists and the SWSS groups were the easiest places on the far left for this stuff to get a few footholds, but if this stuff continues to spread and proves tenacious, then everyone will be effected. Lots of potential recruits will encounter intersectionalist arguments on social media long before they come across any left group.

The CWI's general policy of eying any fashionable idea suspiciously for at least a decade and a half before deciding whether we want anything to do with it may make sure that the organisation itself doesn't actively encourage it. But these sort of ideas will still come in from below, with new members. As I said above, I've already seen one on twitter, which took a bit of the shine off any schadenfreude I might have been inclined towards.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

The CWI's general policy of eying any fashionable idea suspiciously for at least a decade and a half before deciding whether we want anything to do with it

 

[tufty79]

Looks like the intersectionalistas are growing, national Ladyfest event, no mention(yet) of such trivia as the Bedroom Tax and even more so Zero Hours Contracts which are massively impacting WC women.

have you even *heard* of ladyfest before? or what they usually put on?
they are primarily an arts and music event ffs.

have you got a link for LadyFest Sheffield's 'national event'? it's just that we had LadyFest Leeds here this weekend, and it seemed fairly local to me.

actually - apologies - i misread their name
laDIYfest. my mistake.

i'm assuming you've been actively involved in letting them know what they're failing to do, and they've excluded you and ignored your suggestions?

and thank you for the link - i'm going to try and get to this event. couldn't go to ladyfest leeds one because it was at the venue that your rapey mate goes to, and i'm not setting foot in there (oh, the irony).

same with the bookfair - the several pies with his fingers in had stalls yesterday. Someone did suggest that part of the reason i didn't go is because i'm an undercover and 'have 'Clearly pissed off and been ostricised' (rightfully) by the Activist Community' for speaking out about my rape. but they are the ones Doing It Right. cheers for that, editor of freedom newspaper!
(edit: my mistake. i've re-read her rants. she didn't suggest it because i wasn't at the bookfair, but because i've said that although the police have been utterly monstrous with me this year, they've treated me relatively humanely when i've reported sexual assault in the past. so, my not agreeing 100% with acab seems to be the root of her fucking weird episode. glad there's someone responsible steering the Anarchist Press Ship)

been a bit of a trigger weekend - apologies for the rant. i think i needed it.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

I must admit, group of women get together and decide to plan fun stuff they like doesn't seem like crime of the century.

 

[caleb]

It was one yank from a private college. (AF that is)

Sorry nigel, this is still not my experience.

I think it's not your experience because these people don't really have any presence beyond the internet and student politics. It's not a case of seasoned anarchists suddenly all taking up "intersectionality", but of intersectionalists identifying as anarchists - and Nigel is right, take a look at twitter and there's certainly a sizeable group of such people like this, whose politics are essentially liberal (despite proclamations of 'FULL COMMUNISM'), and in that sense you hit the nail on the head when you said "the naming of itself is not accurate".

edit: Another popular self-descriptor is "autonomist" actually

 

[butchersapron]

I think it's not your experience because these people don't really have any presence beyond the internet and student politics. It's not a case of seasoned anarchists suddenly all taking up "intersectionality", but of intersectionalists identifying as anarchists - and Nigel is right, take a look at twitter and there's certainly a sizeable group of such people like this, whose politics are essentially liberal (despite proclamations of 'FULL COMMUNISM'), and in that sense you hit the nail on the head when you said "the naming of itself is not accurate".

So they're coming this way --> anarchsim--<and i'm coming this way, and i'm not using it as a fashion term.

 

[gawkrodger]

now I haven't been to a bookfair for years, and have little interaction with the anarchist 'mileau', but what the fuck is 'intersectionalism'?

oh, and a summary (or recording) of the Harvey discussion would be good

 

[Pickman's model]

now I haven't been to a bookfair for years, and have little interaction with the anarchist 'mileau', but what the fuck is 'intersectionalism'?

oh, and a summary (or recording) of the Harvey discussion would be good

intersectionalism is a sign someone's up their own jaxi

 

[DotCommunist]

now I haven't been to a bookfair for years, and have little interaction with the anarchist 'mileau', but what the fuck is 'intersectionalism'?

oh, and a summary (or recording) of the Harvey discussion would be good

privilege theory rebranded

 

[Pickman's model]

privilege theory rebranded

not a very good rebranding

 

[gawkrodger]

privilege theory rebranded

oh fuck that for a game of jokers

 

[DotCommunist]

oh fuck that for a game of jokers

some of the less edifying twitter meltdowns are beginning to resemble weather underground self criticism sessions

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

joking aside there is a clear tonal link between intersectionlistas and 60s US Maoists.

 

[DotCommunist]

joking aside there is a clear tonal link between intersectionlistas and 60s US Maoists.

yep, I've been reading about the weather underground and the loonier fringe of the SDS and the parallels are clear

 

[TopCat]

I must be getting old, I don't know what the fuck you are all on about.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

joking aside there is a clear tonal link between intersectionlistas and 60s US Maoists.

There's a straightforward theoretical link too in privilege theory, which originated around the heterodox fringes of US Maoism and was adopted by its main "orthodox" pro-Chinese faction.

The CPGB/Weekly Worker has been pushing the notion that "safer spaces" have their origins in Maoism too, but they haven't documented what they allege to be the historical development of the idea. They've just been arguing by drawing parallels. So I'm sceptical about this one.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

same with the bookfair - the several pies with his fingers in had stalls yesterday. Someone did suggest that part of the reason i didn't go is because i'm an undercover and 'have 'Clearly pissed off and been ostricised' (rightfully) by the Activist Community' for speaking out about my rape. but they are the ones Doing It Right. cheers for that, editor of freedom newspaper!

been a bit of a trigger weekend - apologies for the rant. i think i needed it.

Jesus, sorry to hear this and hope you are alright.

 

[frogwoman]

i didn't run into anyone except steph and my flatmate, i wasn't there for very long tho tbf. some of the talks looked interesting but i wasnt sure i could sitthrough the whole thing so just went to wetherspoons

i bought a paper off the SPGB though, i told them that i'd met some of their the comrades at an ICCC meeting and then they said "oh were you the one who did the blog about the icc meeting" i was

 

[Wilf]

I'm hearing they put the radical feminism stall next to the sex worker stall. That was clever.

Alphabetic stall arrangement as provocation.

And Assange supporters, recording film of people arguing with them about the rape allegations

Don't that other Cult, the Scientologists, do the same?