Anarchist Bookfair 2013 October 19th

[DrRingDing]

Well I've been hearing from several folks that a few meetings were disrupted by these anon-assange-manning-occupy twats.

From just sticking theirs hands up and asking disruptive dickish questions to pointing at and abusing a trans woman "look it's a bloke in a dress".

They should have been told to fuck off and if they refused thrown out.

 

[butchersapron]

Well I've been hearing from several folks that a few meetings were disrupted by these anon-assange-manning-occupy twats.

From just sticking theirs hands up and asking disruptive dickish questions to pointing at and abusing a trans woman "look it's a bloke in a dress".

They should have been told to fuck off and if they refused thrown out.

Well, here's a thread to collect real examples of stuff seen:

 

[Belushi]

Well I've been hearing from several folks that a few meetings were disrupted by these anon-assange-manning-occupy twats.

From just sticking theirs hands up and asking disruptive dickish questions to pointing at and abusing a trans woman "look it's a bloke in a dress".

They should have been told to fuck off and if they refused thrown out.

They deserve a kicking for the abuse of the trans woman.

 

[DrRingDing]

They deserve a kicking for the abuse of the trans woman.

They were also going around apparently taking pictures of people they were abusing.

Some pictures of the abusers would be handy.

 

[Pickman's model]

I fucked off to Portugal for five days and made the best of the Eurozone crisis

a cheap holiday in other people's misery

 

[Jean-Luc]

a summary (or recording) of the Harvey discussion would be good

I went to that talk on "Don't read Marx with Harvey". The organisers handed out a sheet containing the following statement made by Harvey at a meeting in New York last 14 November in which he talked of an alternative money:

Representation of value in the money form is a perversion of what value is about, it's a contradiction.[...] What this would suggest is that if you want to prevent class formation, if you want to prevent the individual appropriation of social value, then you would have to come up with a money form that is anti accumulation. Marx says that gold and silver are the money commodities because they are not oxidisable. [...] They maintain their character. You can accumulate value, social power. And we see what happens in societies... But if you had a money form that dissolved, that is oxidisable, we would end up with a very different kind of society. You would have a money form would aid circulation but that would not facilitate accumulation.

The speaker's case was that this showed that Harvey had not understood that in the opening chapters of Capital Marx was criticising the whole concept of exchange, of producers working separately and then exchanging their products to get what they needed to live, and that this had led him to think that Marx was objecting only to money that could be accumulated but not to one that couldn't be.

It was presented as Harvey misunderstanding the difference between "socially necessary labour" and "abstract labour". This may be the case but the point would have been clearer if the speaker had simply said that, as Harvey was speaking of a new form of money that could not be accumulated, he had completely misunderstood Marx who clearly held that the end of capitalism meant the end of exchange, money and valueat

 

[jakethesnake]

I had a great time... didn't get to any talks but did catch up with a couple of good friends, got loads of stickers and literature. We were amused to watch the dreadlocked bloke who liked the sound of his own voice be shouted down by a small claque of women chanting "rape apologist"...they deserved each other.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

Sam Ambreen's account of the day:
http://samambreen.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/there-is-no-anarchism-without-feminism/

 

[DaveCinzano]

Sam Ambreen's account of the day:
http://samambreen.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/there-is-no-anarchism-without-feminism/

Here’s the thing: we don’t give a shit about the average man. We’re not teachers, we’re not leaders, we’re not going to break it down for you in a language you understand.

Well, quite

 

[butchersapron]

Sam Ambreen's account of the day:
http://samambreen.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/there-is-no-anarchism-without-feminism/

Cheers, will have a read in a sec.

I do find (refering to the above) meetings that are about an individuals completely "misunderstood Marx" make me cry.

 

[butchersapron]

Wow, anachy as therapy:

Here’s the thing: we don’t give a shit about the average man. We’re not teachers, we’re not leaders, we’re not going to break it down for you in a language you understand. We are expressing ourselves, nothing more, nothing less. We say these extreme things because, powerless as we are, sometimes it is the only thing in our arsenal. Words are powerful, yes, and for those fleeting few seconds, we are in control and you can’t hurt us

There are no winners here - a dick being a dick and someone saying that anarchism is rhetorical therapy.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I do find (refering to the above) meetings that are about an individuals completely "misunderstood Marx" make me cry.

Oh I agree, but I quite like the group who put it on and figured it would be a good way to rekindle my reading of Capital.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I like the Scum Manifesto as much as the next man, but chanting "Kill All Men" and simultaneously demanding that the Anarchist Bookfair be a "safe space" is not fucking on.

 

[butchersapron]

Joke people. Pretty angry now.

 

[butchersapron]

That person is and idiot, if they were in my membership group i would be moving they were expelled right now. Maybe a little buit of rhetorical racism next time, or chavs out? Just to make the point yeah?

 

[jakethesnake]

What is it with them and chanting anyway? I was reminded of Animal Farm and the sheep chanting "four legs good..." to close down debate.

 

[DaveCinzano]

That person is and idiot, if they were in my membership group i would be moving they were expelled right now. Maybe a little buit of rhetorical racism next time, or chavs out? Just to make the point yeah?

Only patriarchists are in membership groups.

We're talking 'bout a "close knit activist group".

 

[butchersapron]

Only patriarchists are in membership groups.

We're talking 'bout a "close knit activist group".

All the better to drop the ties that bind when that internship comes up.

 

[chilango]

This is why we can't have nice things

 

[Jean-Luc]

That person is and idiot

I'm getting lost. Which person?

 

[TopCat]

I like the Scum Manifesto as much as the next man, but chanting "Kill All Men" and simultaneously demanding that the Anarchist Bookfair be a "safe space" is not fucking on.

Oh dear. I am glad I stayed at home and did the laundry.

 

[butchersapron]

This person who demands that 'we all exist together' whilst chanting 'kill all men' (thereby showing that both are mere rhetoric)

 

[love detective]

there's no easy way of saying this but all sides of that confrontation appear to be as mad as each other

 

[DaveCinzano]

all sides of that confrontation appear to be as mad as each other

BRUNOIST

 

[Jean-Luc]

This person who demands that 'we all exist together' whilst chanting 'kill all men' (thereby showing that both are mere rhetoric)

Oh, I see. Her.

 

[Pickman's model]

BRUNOIST

 

[DaveCinzano]

Does he do winebar counters too?

 

[love detective]

totally bonkers bruno indeed

He randomly accused two of our group of killing 11 people in Northern Ireland

this is bonkers as well, but if they're going around shouting kill all men.....

 

[DrRingDing]

Who was chanting "Kill all men"?

 

[love detective]

Sam Ambreem (never heard of her before now)

The crowd around us got bigger, comrades very much on our side and the others, men who seemed utterly heartbroken (pissed off) that we were chanting “kill all men”. One well-meaning chap explained how his mum was a feminist and how he had support for women but he felt alienated by phrases such as the one we were using. Assuming he was an anarchist, I asked him if he’d ever said ‘ACAB’ or ‘eat the rich’ and then whether he said these in the absolute belief that there wasn’t a single good cop in the world or that he might actually munch on the upper classes because if he was saying it, then he obviously he meant it. There was a slight pause before he understood what I was saying but he persisted in advising that we were pushing the average man away.